Reality VS Religion
I once dove into the window of an overturned mini-van with four people hanging upside down in their seat belts. The driver tried to turn left in front of me from the outside lane. I tried to turn left with him but could not avoid hitting him. It caused him to roll over. To me, there were four people dying if the thing burst into flames, and nobody but me there to try to save them. What else could I do?
The point is this: we are all dying and need to be saved; it's reality. I see dying people all around me and hope there is a window open so life can get in to them. Sadly, in most cases, it is impossible to do anything other than watch the victims die. No matter how much you try to tell them their vehicle is in danger of bursting into flames, and no matter how hard you try to get in and loosen the belt that holds them in position unable to escape, they act like you are trying to do them evil and ruin their fun. I'm not a savior, I'm only trying to do what is right.... but I know the Savior and I know He is willing and able to save all who will trust Him. This is reality.
Religion is when people who are dying insist they do not need to be saved and are justified to die however they feel like dying.....or justified to live however they feel like living. Religious people believe in what they do in order gain as much assurance as possible that they will not be punished in death. Some religious people are atheists or agnostics, most are not. Most religious people believe in their own goodness so they think that they do not need to be saved now....yet they are obviously dying and need to be saved.
God loves you all and so do I. God hates evil and so do I. The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable (usually refers to sodomites), and murderers, and whoremongers (this refers to guys like slapstick, lumped in with murderers and sodomites and the following) and sorcerers (sorcerer comes from the word "pharmakia" and is generally tied to using drugs to try to manipulate one's feelings or alter reality, witchcraft and sorcery go hand in hand) and idolaters (Catholics are idolaters as they pray to and worship idols, gods they call Mary, "Queen of Heaven" which is mentioned as an abominable idol in the Bible, and "saints"), and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Isn't it good to know God will purge His creation of evil?
Reality is real
Side Score: 39
|
 |
Religion is make believe
Side Score: 31
|
|
|
|
|
1
point
You are being religious when you are trying to justify yourself for living. In all religions, this is what people do. Reality is knowing God, having eternal life now and not being religious; not trying to justify yourself but trusting God to be your justification. There is only one way for this to be true, and it's through His blood payment for your sins so He can consider your debt paid and pardon you, forgive you after He died for your sins and rose to justify you if you will believe on Him. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Side: Religion is make believe
Reality is not religious. You are clinging to your religion because you do not want justice as you know in your heart that justice cries out against you and you deserve to die the same as me. Of course not all religion is monotheistic. People invent all kinds of gods and religions, more than I can count, as they try to find ways to believe they are justified to live free of constant punishment. Many religions, such as nihilism and atheism, are atheistic. Some religions believe God is an impersonal force which empowers nature so that life emerges spontaneously for no good reason, and is cold and cruel because it carries pain and suffering with it while it allows for evil oppression by force of power. Justice is reality and you are trying to make it go away in your religion of nihilism. You can't win with it. Side: Religion is make believe
Oh, I will be the first to admit that religion is very real, all right. Often opprssive and stifling and a gross impedence to science and progress, but alas, very real. It is most of their beliefs and dogma that are fantasy. But religion IS real. Kinda like viruses and plagues. LOL Side: Reality is real
This post was edited to remove comments referring to other discussions. You have a clean slate here, and I am overlooking the lack of civility in your first post for now. Please read the OP carefully as well as my carefully written responses to your first post in this discussion. I hope we can have a good discussion void of personal attacks here. If you don't insult my intelligence, I wont' insult yours. This first post of yours is an insult to my intelligence, and I hope it will be your last such post in this discussion. I really do want you to participate here, but I will insist on keeping the discussion focused on the OP and respectful toward me and others. If comments are going too far off on tangents so it's too much bother to try to get the focus back on the OP, then I'm going to have to ban people. Side: Religion is make believe
When I start a discussion, I generally give people a clean slate and as long as they remain focused on discussing the topic responsively to the OP, I forget all their past fouls in other places. You are being foul here. My points are referring to reality and are framed logically. If you cannot respond to them in a civil manner, you will be banned. I suggest you read the OP carefully and respond to it thoughtfully. If you are able to respond thoughtfully in a manner which shows the same respect you want others to show you, then you are welcome. If not, you will not be welcome here. This discussion is not about science. Science observes reality. Science observes that your body exists, and maybe observes that you have a distinct personality in that body. Whether science agrees that you are a person or simply chemical reactions and not really a person, reality is that you are dying and that fact is scientifically observable at all levels of material composition in your body. Religion is what people do in order to justify their lives in hope of securing freedom from unbearable punishment in death, it is how people think or act in order to convince themselves or others that they are good enough to live as long as they live. Some people believe they exist, or live, forever while some believe they un-exist when the chemical reactions which appear to give them life malfunction beyond repair by any observable method. Reality is factual. If you are not living in reality, you are dying in reality. In reality, we are all dying. Some people think they can escape this reality by manipulation of nature, and maybe they can...but will they? I think not. Sooner or later the whole Universe is going to dissolve, explode, or implode anyways and all life forms will no longer function in the material universe. Try to have an intelligent philosophical discussion with me regarding the nature of reality and human nature which generally tries to justify itself......or please stay out of this discussion courteously so I don't have to ban you. Thank you. Side: Religion is make believe
Yes, religion is real. It is misguided and self-deceptive, but it is real. Catholicism is a very misguided and self-deceptive religion which is NOT Christian except in dictionary definitions. The Bible defines how a person becomes a Christian and what a Christian is. Catholic dogma and practices cannot make anybody into being a Christian. They can be extremely religious and speak much of people and events relating to the Bible, but that does not make them Christian except in the overly broad dictionary definition which ignores the Bible's instruction on how to become a Christian and what a Christian really is. Yes, most of the beliefs and dogmas of all religions are fantasy, but the religions are real. They really are people trying to be justified by the things they do, say, or believe. Reality clearly shows by death that no life can be justified in itself, by itself, or for itself. If it could, it would not have to die. Let's try to stick to the facts here. There is no need to debate any scientific data which can be observed. As for your comments of religion being "often oppressive and stifling and a gross impedance to science and progress", I suppose I have to concede that the statement is true though it is far to broadly implied as a slander against all who hold beliefs similar to my own. The man who invented the MRI machine believes pretty much the same as me, and like me is aware that believing the Bible in no way rules out practical science....the same as belief in evolution is not required for any practical science. Atheists and agnostics do not own science, have not cornered the market on science, and only display ignorance when they claim that they do own science and have cornered it's market. Yes, the Catholic church and other religions and religious organizations have at times throughout history sought to hinder scientific discovery. To make a blanket statement implying all who believe in God are against the reality of scientific discovery or practical application of science is not only false, it is malicious and slanderous and ignorant of reality. The inventor of the MRI machine is only one of many scientists who believes pretty much the same as me on all points. Yes there are far more scientists in academia who believe in the religion of evolution and insist they are not being religious...and if you take a stand opposing their beliefs about reality which are not scientific, you are going to be blackballed and probably unable to get a job in any secular college today. That's a shame. The colleges today are turning into breeding grounds of fascism, drowning out or throwing out all voices which call atheistic beliefs in question. In this discussion, you will give fair treatment to the opposing view or YOU will be thrown out. I'm being more than fair with you now, as I did ban you at first because of this cliché post which is only designed to silence those who doubt your beliefs. I removed you from the ban list. If you act civil with me, you wont' be banned. This is probably going to be the last time I try to get you to act reasonable in this debate. If you want to participate in this discussion, you have to show me some respect here. Side: Religion is make believe
The reality of religion is not the topic here. In this discussion, religion is being viewed as mankind's attempts to justify themselves so they feel they are worthy of not being punished forever in death. Yes, religion is real but it is a mistake of judgement. Reality logically shows that religion is futile; it is not possible for a person to justify themselves in order to be exempt from eternal punishment in death. I hope you will engage respectfully here in this philosophical discussion. Side: Religion is make believe
I made a few points about reality in the OP which offer plenty of opportunity for discussion. If you are not interested in discussing them and other points related to the OP, then please refrain from posting here. This is intended as a philosophical discussion of the reality of our existence. This is also intended as a philosophical discussion of the basic error of religion which teaches a person can be justified by their own doings in order to be exempt from eternal punishment in death. Son, have a seat and join the conversation or sit and listen quietly. Thank you. Side: Reality is real
His comments almost got him banned, and it looks like he has decided to hold his tongue rather than engage with me in philosophical discussion of reality which is objective truth. Observable science is reality, and objective truth. Slapstick, like you, practices a nihilistic religion. His focus is in believing magic of evolution, while your focus is wrestling with concepts of ideology. You are more open for discussion than slapstick, and you will do well to keep the focus in tune with the guidelines I am presenting. I'm going to tolerate very little slapstick insulting against me, God, you, or anybody else here. I think Slapstick understands that this is my classroom and I will throw him out if he does not want to participate in adult fashion. In your comment here, you are mirroring his disrespectful attitude and like I did with him in his disrespectful post, I'm going to try to affirm points I agree with you on while weeding out the things that are going off topic. In closing of this part, I suggest you read my replies to Slapsticks comments and respond more to my comments that to Slapsticks. Yes, religion is just an idea and not an independent living organism like you with instincts to survive and copulate. I hope you are controlling your urges to follow your instinctive desire for copulation as a lack of control in this area is detrimental to your emotional and physical well being. Such lack of control also causes diseases to spread, and I don't want you to get any of those diseases and much less spread them to others. Lack of self-control is sin, and it always carries emotional and physical distress. You can beat yourself to a pulp if you don't control your instinctual desire to bang with whatever looks or feels good. I am aware that in your nihilistic thinking, if it feels good it's worth it because nothingness is what you think the only real hope is so you might as well enjoy whatever and give no thought to anybody else's feelings in your pleasures. You are seeking coherent ideology and unable to convince yourself if you are even real. You are being religious, and not living in reality because you don't want to live in reality...too much pain and suffering in reality and you are trying to get out of it. This is reality 101, welcome to the class. Do not disrupt with disrupters, please. Cartman got banned because he is a disrupter, Slapstick I think is aware that disruption will not be tolerated and is avoiding being kicked out of my classroom by remaining silent and not engaging me in this discussion. I really don't want to ban anybody. If Slapstick posts one more time in fashion of his first post here, he will be banned...I can only hope to keep that stuff limited. I want to keep this discussion focused and appealing for others who may be interested in participating. Comments like Slapstick's and Cartman's will only bring confusion and are childishly disrespectful toward me. I can agree with you that religion is bad, futile, misguided. The main point here is that reality wins over religion. Religion is corrupt and misguided, like you are yourself corrupt and misguided.....misguided so badly that you can't even be sure you are really real, so misguided that you question and doubt your own existence. You are here....that is assuming you are still with us and your time of dying here has not yet ended. Side: Religion is make believe
If you want to have a discussion with Slapstick along the lines he posted and you embellished, please do so elsewhere. I can pretty safely predict that it will be a dry, lifeless conversation and you guys will tire of it but go on and enjoy if you want to.....but don't do it here. This is my classroom. Slapstick is welcome to participate with me here as long as he refrains from being disruptive. Side: Reality is real
1
point
Why don't you talk to Slamstick in private conversation and see if he can give you some pointers or encouragements for this discussion? As long as people are responsive to me here, they won't be banned. Slipstitch seems to be wanting to stay out of the discussion here, and my guess is because he knows that I will show how he is being religious while he rails against religion.... The catch here is that I am speaking out loudly and logically against religion myself. Reality goes against religion. Religion goes against reality. You are trying to make reality go away in your religion because you do not want Justice......and I capitalized that word as a personification because it is personal and you have to deal with it personally if you like it or not. Side: Reality is real
Is the comparison unfair? Is it really? I do not think so. Why? Similarities between Viruses and Religions... Both have killed millions. Both can be transmitted from person to person. Both can be airborne...as when religion is spewed across the airwaves via TV and radio and the Internet. Both can propagate and thrive and increase their numbers at an alarming rate. Both can be very difficult to eradicate, even when we know they are dangerous. Both need a living host to survive! (I like this one--I just thought of it! LOL) And both make the world a more dangerous place. Side: Reality is real
1
point
The viewpoints here are pretty confusingly labeled so I'm going to post on this one as well: "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" If any religious person can provide one single piece of empirical, testable evidence to support the existence of a god or gods then I will immediately convert to that correct religion. But I have no reason to believe that that will ever happen, so please religious people, prove me wrong and justify your religion. Side: Reality is real
The viewpoints here are pretty clearly explained. You are being religious in trying to justify yourself, and reality is that your life cannot be justified and the proof is that you are dying. You are the religious person here, not me. I am living in reality, you are dying in reality and being religious believing you justify yourself so that you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner. It does not matter what religion you convert to, all religions including atheism are belief systems in which the practitioner is believing their lives are justified. Death prove you wrong, your life is not justifiable, but you are trying to deny reality. Reality goes against your religion so you try to shut it out as you are wasting away with one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell. Side: Religion is make believe
|
Anybody who comes here, first discuss the OP. If you insert a bunch of junk not related to the OP, and only try to take over the discussion, I'll probably ban you quickly. I'm tired of being dragged through all kinds of junk by people who do not want to discuss the OP. Side: Religion is make believe
In my opinion neither are true. To compare one to the other is the same as comparing ones actual self with its reflection. Lets start with religion. Religion is the participation of an idea surrounded by the belief and worship of a deity. Religion is only real to those who practice it to others like my self its something you know about however if i don't subject myself to it i am not directly affected by it. (Let it be clear i understand the context in which you assume religion is real and in that sense i have no choice but to acknowledge that as true). That being said and for the sake of argument i have to say all things are of a matter of perception. by that i mean religion is subjective there is no right or wrong because as I've stated it is the practicing of an idea. Ideals are relative to the one practicing and believing in it. Cultural and personal background defines how ones religion is practiced even if the religion has a specific guideline we will no doubt see variations depending on the devotee. so to sum it up all we ever actually debate are opinions backed by cultural and personal facts submitted as evidence. Example- freddy kruger is only real to his believers yet none believers saw the effects in the real world. although they witness this phenomenon they never believed the victim and by that act they never saw the villain.(not an argument for the existence of any known deity) On the same note reality isn't unlike religion in the context of what we call reality or the sense of needing one to believe in its existence. Like religion we have different opinions on what reality is to some degree. In "actuality" reality isn't real either, reality follows the same rules as religion does. The rule of perception. Example- in your reality you felt obligated to help the family as many of us would have instinctively. 1 because of how our society glorifies and encourages heroism. 2 because of our innate will to end the suffering of others as you put it helping those who don't think they need help. Which by the way is cruel in its own right. So in your 'reality' helping them may be the honorable thing to do but not the correct one. Now in 'actuality' you were suppose to notify the proper authorities and standby to provide a statement. The exception being you are a trained professional in that particular area, licensed to respond to that situation or both. This would of been the correct way of handling the incident albeit not the right way. Reason being if anyone were to die from you trying to save them then you would be tried for homicide- not to say positively due to the good Samaritan Law, but again for the sake of this discussion- Point is our perception and cultural upbringing dictates how we practice our religions and how one would perceive what we define as reality vs what is 'actual'. So in conclusion i have to say there is no comparison since they are one in the same. Side: Religion is make believe
Religion is self-deception. Religion is trying to save yourself when in reality you need a savior to be saved. You don't even know that reality is real, and you go on and on here acting like you know what you are talking about? Your brain is full of fruitcake, dude. You need somebody to pour a cup of hot coffee on your head so maybe you can realize you are real and dying in reality, and need to be saved from eternal damnation. Side: Reality is real
I totally agree. Because you said it. You're absolutely right a hot beverage would compliment a fruitcake. What does this have to do with the discussion? 1 You really agree with everything i stated above. Unless you actually believe heaven is in the clouds, and hell is the middle of the earth via volcanoes. The idea of them both cotrodicts reality as one would think it to be. oh, and insults are meaningless so keep em' coming - pun intended. Just make sure you save room for an actual rebuttal. Side: Religion is make believe
Anybody who comes here, first discuss the OP. If you insert a bunch of junk not related to the OP, and only try to take over the discussion, I'll probably ban you quickly. I'm tired of being dragged through all kinds of junk by people who do not want to discuss the OP. Side: Reality is real
If you can't compare yourself to your reflection and know which is the real you, then I guess you are not living in reality but rather are living a fantasy of mental self-stroking to make yourself feel good as you deny reality. Reality is against religion, and you are being religious living in your fantasy land thinking you are good. You're nutso, man. I was deep into Americanized Hinduism for a few years...six or seven I guess. It's a self-deluding deception. You are fooling yourself into thinking you can escape God's judgment against your moral depravity, fooling yourself into thinking you are good rather than depraved. I hope I never have to depend on somebody like you when I need help. Side: Reality is real
1
point
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" If any religious person can provide one single piece of empirical, testable evidence to support the existence of a god or gods then I will immediately convert to that correct religion. But I have no reason to believe that that will ever happen, so please religious people, prove me wrong and justify your religion. Side: Religion is make believe
you are a god in your own imagination. That's why I banned you. Because your mouth is bigger than your imagination, and that's a tiny little god with no power to keep itself from being banned. All "gods" are idols. You have to change God in your imagination to be a god so you can believe you have the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell and feel better dying. Side: Reality is real
1
point
"Sin" is a word which alludes to "missing the mark" and refers to an archer's arrow falling short of perfection, not hitting the bull's eye. When you are perfect in all your ways, you have no sin in you. When you have no sin in you, you never do wrong, you never fall short of the mark of being like God. Because you have sinned against God, you are fallen short. We have all broken God's law, we have all sinned. Sin is real. It's the things you do which are wrong. To say "sin is not real" is to say "I never do anything wrong", and I think we all know you are a liar if you say that. You got banned from some of my debates for doing things wrong. You will probably get banned from this one before long. You are practicing a religion in which you believe you are justified to live as long as you exist, or that you are justified to exist as long as you live. Of course you believe there is no sin because you do not want to believe that Hell's eternally condemning fire justifies the existence of sinners. You are living a self-deluded fantasy in which you don't even know if you are real because you really aren't sure if you even exist or if you are only a temporary and passing illusion of mindless nonsensical forces you cannot control. You are not living in reality. In reality, you are dying, and as a sinner that is what you deserve. Can you tell me when you cease to exist and there is no Hell to justify your existence as a sinner? Side: Religion is make believe
"I know the savior and he is willing and able to save all who trust him." Well, those 20 kids at Sandy Hook didn't get much chance to LEARN to trust him. The little kid washed up on the beach in Spain, (was it?) got about as much "saving" as they did. It happens every day, every where! I'm 78. I've "been saved" a few times, and I don't even believe in "Him". Where's the "love" for those innocents who die every day??? The "believers", and those who haven't had a CHANCE TO believe! I have NO feelings about what you believe, it's your right. I need to see the "love", the compassion. I have been looking for many years. All I've seen is "miracles" when one life out of 100 becomes "gods work"! Side: Religion is make believe
Yes banning seems to be your way out of everything doesn't it ? Not surprising seeing as your only defence in most debates is to copy and paste a fellow fuckwits thoughts from a young earth creationists site . I was right when I said you're a slack jawed yokel who's main form of recreation is playing the star spangled banner on the jug accompanied by ma and pa on the saw and spoons :) Side: Religion is make believe
You seem to be ignoring the OP. You are still dying and need to be saved. You need to be saved permanently, not temporarily. If you were in a car wreck and I were there to get you out, that may save you temporarily. This is reality. Where is your love? You just seem like a bitter old man. You need to be saved. Reality 101. If I tell you less than the truth, it would be apathetic and unloving. You want to see the love without the truth, you won't find it here. You are dying in reality and practically demanding God prove He is real by giving you what you want, an eternity void of any possibility of believing God is good. God is good, so He is giving you what you want but you won't like it when you realize Hell is what you were asking for and you wake up in it with no way out. You should be ashamed of yourself and seek God's mercy, but I guess you think being a bitter old fool makes you tough. All it's doing is making you dead, a dead man walking and talking with one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell. I hope you get saved before it's too late, but by the way you talk so hatefully against God I guess you will get what you want in eternity separated from Him forever by your sin. Side: Reality is real
How can I say I love you if I do not tell you the truth? The truth is that we are both sinners who deserve to die and burn in Hell, and God loves us so much that He became a man and paid our price in death with His own blood, He died for His enemies who had sinned against Him, died for us to save us from the sinner's Hell. There is no greater love than this. If you won't believe it, you won't receive God's love. I cannot in any way say your sin is ok. If I were to do so, any love I show would be feigned love. I'm showing love by telling you the truth when you only hate me for it. God loves you even though you are a sinner who is going against Him. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. If you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. You can't pretend to have no feelings toward God's offer of pardon through faith in the blood of His Son He gave to cover the sins of all who will trust in Him, believe on Him. Saying you are apathetic toward the faith of God is no different than saying you hate God. God will not accept "no feelings" as an excuse for not believing on His Son. If God took the 20 kids at Sandy Hook out of this world, then that is His business and their judgment is His decision. We are all on death row. Why should we not be executed with worse treatment than those kids at Sandy Hook got? Time is a gift for God we do not deserve, and He gives it to us because He loves us. He is showing you His love all of the time, but you are calling for His wrath by saying you have no feelings toward Him. God wants you to love Him the same as He loves you, that's what He created you for, mutual pleasure, to give you life, to enjoy your company in His Kingdom of Heaven forever. God will make a new work in your life, give you a new heart, peace and joy inside that cannot be taken away by suffering...but you must believe Him and trust Him. If you will get real with God, you will know Him real with you. God loves you. He wants you to be honest about your sin and receive His Son, the LORD of Lords, as your Savior. You can if you want to. You will if you see that you need to. You won't if you think you are good the way you are. Side: Reality is real
Where did all this talk about my hate come from? I don't hate you, I don't hate Jesus, I don't hate God. I simply don't believe in God, OR in your theories. Jesus is another thing. I believe a MAN named Jesus existed. I believe he was a charismatic MAN, allegedly with ideas that we should all live by. I certainly don't believe that there is a "god" who "created" the universe and man, and I simply can't "worship" a god who, in MY mind, is so cruel to "his creations". I wouldn't tolerate a cruel spoiled brat because someone said "he's really a good person, he just has strange ways and does whatever he wants to do". I don't want a new heart if it makes me tolerant of cruelty. I don't think I can be much more "honest about my sin", if you want to call it that. Hating "God" would be like hating the bogy-man. I can't hate "him" because I don't believe he exists. I DO hate the cruelty in the Old Testament, and I am not in favor of those who worship an entity that acts not so differently than the "beloved leader" of N. Korea. Believe in me, love me, OR BE PUNISHED! Still, if YOU like this kind of "leader", I will never hate you for it, no more than I hate the unfortunate N. Korean people. That is your right and I respect that right .... just please don't try to "force" your belief into my country's laws, into MY life. I "believe" Jesus was a good MAN, allegedly, with good ideas, NOT my savior. Have a good life. Side: Reality is real
|
