I figured this out a while ago, when I was around 17 or 18, so it may be rusty... If there was a creator, then possibly. I can't test that so that's the end of that train of thought. If there was no creator though, I assume that what exists does so infinitely, with no beginning and with no end. I assume this because It's the quickest way to the same conclusion. If you assume that nothing came from something, that is just another plain of existence that could be dealt with in the same manner... so I'll just assume that everything that is, has been and will be forever existent and forever changing. Bah, it's such a big theory... if energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed, then we get: A) Matter is infinite B) Energy is infinite C) Time is infinite (For the sake of understanding) D) We are aware of this If matter and the exchange of energy continues infinitely long, the combination that lead us to this point must have without a doubt, happened infinitely many times in the past (we have lived these exact same lives infinite times, and infinite lives that were different from our own, even if it's extremely different, or seemingly no different whatsoever. We have lived an infinite amount of lives, forever, and once we die we'll be reborn again in the same life until we die the same death over and over, into infinity. We are, in a sense, always alive, and there is always an "Afterlife", though it's not really an afterlife, it's just a life. Nothing can happen after anything in infinity because it's sort of, not on a linear time line that we're used to thinking it. It's all at once and only seems to happen linearly to human life. Let me know if you don't understand something, I'll elaborate.
279 days ago | Tagged As: yes
In your argument you make a couple of assumptions that I disagree with. First, we do not know time is infinite. We know that our own universe began around 14 billion years ago, and that (assuming the universe continues to expand) eventually all energy and matter in the universe will eventually become uniform heat (second law of thermodynamics). What this means is that, although time will stretch for a very long time, it is not infinite. This is important because it means that not every extremely improbable event has to happen. Now let me examine your second claim: that we have lived our lives infinite times, and will live our lives again, infinite times. I'm going to use you as an example. What are you? You could say a human, a living organism, or any number of vague terms, however at the most basic level, you are a collection of atoms. What is most important though, is that your collection is not arbitrary. There was no dice rolled, or anything of that sort. A very long series of events, starting billions of years ago, and ending with this very moment has led to the ever changing grouping of atoms that is you. That grouping is different now then when you first began reading this argument, and will be different again when you finish. Each moment of your life has changed you. And before your life, it was your parents lives that shaped you, up until your conception. And before them it was there parents and so on until you trace yourself all the way back to our primitive single celled ancestors who had just come out of the primordial soup. I am not even including in this the multitude of outside factors that played a part in shaping who you are today. There were solar flares, asteroids, windy days, snow, and floods that all played a part in the arrangement of the cells which make up you. I am going to assume that you are familiar with chaos theory, and therefore know that any change during the past 14 billion years, up until now, no matter how infintesimally small, would have meant that you, as you are right now, would not have existed. What this also means is the chances of the same type of atoms of the same number coming into the exact same formation is indescribably improbable. In an infinite universe, like the one you described, it may still be possible for this to happen, however, in the actual universe, there is a limited window for you or anyone else to be created. Therefore I can safely say that this is your only life...enjoy it.
278 days ago | Tagged As: No
Alright... 1. If you assume that the universe will at some point expand to a point were no matter will have an effect on any other matter or energy in the universe and everything will stop moving (because matter and energy moving through space is still an event), then you're saying that the universe will essentially die. That it will be inactive without end. My answer to that, very quickly, is that you cannot have an end to infinity. Infinity is one point whereas a "very long time" is a linear string that exists within the point of infinity. Everything that is happening now in space and time, must happen forever or we couldn't be here now. If you think that the universe will die or collapse on itself, that's fine though, it doesn't conflict with my idea though because like I've said, infinity doesn't end, it is infinite, and if we're here now we'll be here forever, just as infinity is forever. If the universe ceases to change at some point and it must reach the linear equivalent that we understand it to be now again, then there is a higher nature that will reset the universe to it's linear beginning through some means. Anyhow 2. If you look at the existence as a calculation, with numbers being matter and mathematics being the laws of physics, time being the change of one number to the next, it doesn't seem as radical an idea, that all of what is now could easily duplicated in infinity. Existence works like a machine, laws governed by a higher level of existence, and that one too, has a higher existence, and so on. The only thing that hinders a simple grasp of this concept is our consciousness and how we expect a final existence by which everything is governed but itself, which would be immediately erroneous (and is the reason why we cannot think this). It really is something that I should be working on more, but I don't see any great importance in thinking that the universe is nothing and something all at once governed by something and nothing all at once and how time will continue indefinitely and we'll all live our shitty lives over and over... It's not meaningful to anyone, even scientists who are looking for answers... they would just give up and say "Science is bull, and we'll never learn anything because human consciousness cannot understand infinity, and that's what we're dealing with on every level of existence except with our consciousness (which too, we deal with but not seemingly)" It really is too great a subject to simply argue on CreateDebate after drinking too much. :^/
278 days ago | Tagged As: yes
Thanks Bradf0rd(1136), I feel your arguement has alot of good meaning and virtual thinking embedded in it, and, like you, I don't believe we have an ending to this journey and it doesn't take a philosopher to realise that because when the first man saw the first ever complete day and then unexpectantly saw the sun rise again, he knew it would never end.
277 days ago | Tagged As: yes
Excellent posts btw, but, and I fear I may be wrong on this, if the universe and time are destroyed then we will not only not exist we will also have never existed. So once we reach the stage that the universe never existed there's no reason to think that it would exist again.
211 days ago | Tagged As: No
What exactly do you mean by "destroy" and are you talking about existence (reality) or are you literally referring to the universe?
211 days ago | Tagged As: yes
Destroyed was the wrong word, when this universe returns to its theoretical "at" big bang state.
211 days ago | Tagged As: No
Well, I don't really understand what you mean, but I'll go with what I think you mean... I think you're looking at my argument, as if I'm saying, if we exist in one state now, we do so forever on a linear timeline, and what is true for linear time is also true for infinity... while this may be true in some respects, this is not what I'm saying. Since you're talking about the universe specifically, I can explain, basically, what I know. All of the matter in the universe will slow to a halt, and contract into one point. Sure, all of the matter in the universe is expanding at a constant rate of acceleration, but we cannot tell just by looking at it that it won't halt and contract. Dark matter, which can only be identified by it's effects on visible matter, makes up a large majority of the universe, and is probably the cause of the expansion. Something is still being forced away from the center of the universe, something dense. It is also forcing visible matter away, too. The universe will contract into one place, and condense until all of the matter and energy are uniform, which is to say, when everything reaches the total sum of 0, or it reaches complete equilibrium, in that same instant that it does, the universe will explode again... It would have to explode in the very same way that it did the time before us. I say this because all matter and energy were uniform at one point in space time. It would always explode into the same structure, always. Now, the linear time that we see, if it is one point in infinity, would always exist within infinity, but so would every other point on that linear timeline. When the universe reaches it's equilibrium, it would stay that way forever, sure, but not on a linear timeline, only to infinity. Every point in time, where one tiny event takes place, would exist on the plain of infinity forever, as one point, but for things, like us, that read these linear strings of time, it cannot exist forever, only for one instant. It's difficult to explain. Imagine a graph where X is a string of time, and Y as a string of events. If you only trace Y, the event would always exist at one time. One single change in the state of the entire universe would happen FOREVER. Time would, in a sense, not exist. If you trace X only, without Y, you have one infinite amount of time with no events. Each of these lines become meaningless. Trace them both and you have what humans can understand, a time with events in it. It's meaningful. Now, if you imagine that graph as a single point, all of that entire graph as nothing more than a point. One value, and that value is its own existence. It is a point where time and events take place infinitely. The point only validates the existence of space time and events... That point is infinity. So in a sense, you're right in thinking that when the universe collapses on itself, it will stay that way forever, but only to the Y axis. The X axis is time, that exists forever in the point of existence. It will continue to be, forever.
210 days ago | Tagged As: yes
You cannot assume the universe will collapse upon itself again into a singularity. Current understanding of the universe dictates that the universe will expand indefinitely, causing the density of matter and energy to asymptotically approach zero, hence the death of the universe. Your theory lacks a mechanism to cause the universe to contract after the aforementioned period of expansion. Scientists have already concluded that the force of gravity has been overcome by the mysterious force accelerating the expansion of the universe, which had led to the general acceptance that our universe will die a cold and dark death.
206 days ago | Tagged As: No
If current understanding dictates, as it always does, I guess I should just go back to church? That theory of mine wasn't my theory and it wasn't a theory. It was an loose explanation of a theory (and the simplest one that I know of), but one that's rules exist inside of existence itself. All of this started with existence, I was merely answering a question that I didn't fully understand. If you have a better explanation do us a favor and answer his question.
206 days ago | Tagged As: yes
I like your argument, one up vote. One question though, is the child the same as the man? I mean, what constitutes the individual? His thoughts, the atoms that make him up or the continuity of the body. If the thoughts, then the child and the man should be the same because the child can adquire the thoughts of the man. If the atoms, then they will never cease to exist but they may separate and become something else. If the body, then that rots in the ground.
279 days ago | Tagged As: yes
Is a child the same as a man, no. I don't really get the meaning of the question though... It seems like an interesting question, so explain a little better and I'll see what I think.
278 days ago | Tagged As: yes
OK, the question is, what constitues that thing you call "you." is it your brain/memories is it the atoms that make up your body is it your physical body
278 days ago | Tagged As: yes
Ah, alright. Quickly, because I'm almost late for work: - Me (you) is the external I. (Your physical body, shape mass and volume, etc.) - I is your consciousness if you are self aware. - Self is an image of me that is created by I. (How you see yourself and what you act through) I think your question is more concerned with the "I". I believe that it's a combination of all of those things, but the atoms in your body aren't particularly important, like legos they can be swapped out with like legos and it'll make no difference... Your physical body, including your brain and memories are important in form, because they create an I and from there a sense of self. To get a gist of what I'm trying to say you'll have to read Descartes "Meditations on First Philosophy" (or maybe "Discourse on Method", I don't really remember), where he says "I Think therefor I am". Also, a lot of psychology concerning self image and self-awareness. I've gotta run now, sorry for the shabby response.
278 days ago | Tagged As: yes
That's pretty cool. I have never heard that theory before which is impressive especially if you thought it all up yourself. I don't completely agree but some of it went over my head so I'm not gunna go down that road. (; Just thought it was good old, entertaining, food for thought.
279 days ago | Tagged As: yes
I believe that we have spirits encaged in us that will never die out. Even though our influence on the world will some day be finished that doesn't mean there is never another hirizon, we all just keep living in this ever changing climate called time.
277 days ago | Tagged As: yes
something to think about. lets step back a few paces, to ourselves in the embryonic stage, our gestation period before birth, after conception, or creation. we had no idea that the world in which we began, in the womb, was only the beginning of our life. we did not know anything else outside our little universe inside our mothers. we presumably accepted that this was life and there was no reason to imagine something or somewhere outside of our mother. there certainly is a life outside of this one, all the facts predict so, such as, the tunnel of light, a memory of the birthing experience into a world yet unknown until birth. a world of light, sounds, into the arms of our family, people and places we had never seen before, our first breath. life tells us that the embryo although alive, has yet to be born, so it is fair to assume based on past experience, that there is indeed another plane of existence outside of this one. death to the past life, the only one you knew, and birth, to the new life. just like a baby, conception to birth. statistics show that what has happened in the past is likely to happen again. now having said that, the universe? the world in an embryonic state, suspended in a placental space, what we can understand would suggest that, like the baby, the earth, has yet to be born outside of this universe. if we can exit our mother, escape the earths atmosphere, we too can exit this universe. indeed this is only the beginning of a truly amazing journey, mentally, physically, and spiritually.
253 days ago | Tagged As: yes
"We did not know anything else outside our little universe inside our mothers." This is a false premise. It's impossible to claim that an unborn child is capable of intelligent thought, let alone thought at all. I don't question that it is alive, but rather that it is capable of thought anymore than a spleen is or hair follicles, at least up until the moment of birth. Additionally, there is little to no empirical evidence that everyone experiences "a world of light" or a "tunnel of light". There is less evidence still that one is capable of remembering birth. It seems that your technique for reasoning in this argument is inductive. However for an inductive argument in this subject, one would need to compile data their entire life until death in order to arrive at a conclusion. The other approach (i.e. deductive) requires one to first believe that their is some afterlife, and then one must somehow compile evidence that indicates specifically an afterlife to support the hypothesis. However, as stated previously, that kind of data is impossible to find without actually dying already first. As for "what has happened in the past is likely to happen again". This is certainly true in biological terms and sociological terms. However when one speaks of the universe, of the INFINITE universe (a logical response to the infinite universe is that there are infinitely many variables), one must also realize that the chance that something that happened once will happen again will be infinitely small, perhaps even zero. It's the same in a mathematical function where the x-value would be time y is some event. for every x value, no matter the length of the line, there is exactly ONE y value. The basic problem with your argument seems to me to be a faulty analogy. Please try again.
55 days ago | Tagged As: No
Yes there is always a chance for this situation. they fact that the time is eternal for every one is the suggesting feature for this statemnt
172 days ago | Tagged As: yes
Here are the arguments of afterlife according to Quran: 1- Just as our Creator gave us life in this world He will bring us back to life on the Day of Resurrection. 2- Allah Who created the heavens and the earth and was not tired of it can easily bring the dead back to life. 3-Allah Who created the heavens and the earth can create the like of them. He can create the Hell and the Paradise. 4- It is He Who originates the creation, then will repeat it and it is easier for Him. As doing the same for the second time is naturally easier than the first time. Although neither the first nor the second creation is difficult for Him. 5-Afterlife is the natural demand of our morality as we know that good and bad are not equal and same and they shouldn't be. Should the reward of prophets and pious people (who are the best people of humanity) and the worst people be the same. Should human beings and trees or insects be dealt equally that both die and that is all? Here are some verses from Quran having such arguments. (Al Kahaf Sura No 18, Verse no 37) Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then He fashioned you into a perfect man? (Al Dukhan Sura No 44, Verse no 38) And We have not created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them for amusement. (Al Maryam Sura No 19, Verse no 66-67) And man (the disbeliever) says: "What! When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?" Doesn't he remember that We created him before, when he was nothing (Yaseen Sura No 36, Verse no 77-83) Does not man see that We created him from a mere sperm-drop? Yet behold! he (stands forth) as an open quarreler. And he makes comparisons for Us and forgets his own creation. He says: "Who will give life to these bones after they are rotten and have become dust?" Say: "He will give them life Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-knower of every creation!" He Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold, you kindle from it. Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth, Able to create the like of them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Supreme Creator. Verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, "Be" ــ and it is! So glory to Him in Whose hands is the dominion of all things: and to Him will you be brought back.
84 days ago | Tagged As: yes
We are all energy , essence and matter, We are all molecular globs. Our soul is lighter and does continue. I believe that the tunnel of light is not just death , but birth also .Afterlife does exist. Its more awsome than "heaven" , its electrical , its hard to explain , almost magical in its appearance , though it is lucid. Religion and prayer has nothing to do with it.
84 days ago | Tagged As: yes
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In order for there to be an afterlife, some part of you would have to survive death. When you die, your physical self ceases to function. This means your brain, your nervous system, your eyes, your ears, your nose etc... cease to function. We know that memory is stored within the brain. If the brain ceases to function, you no longer have memory. We can trace instincts, and emotions to different centers of the brain. If the brain ceases to function, then once again we lose the ability to have these instincts or emotions. Cognitive thought also takes place in the brain, and like the others I mentioned would be impossible without the brain. In fact, there are conditions in which the brain is damaged and we can witness what happens when parts of the brain cease to function. Alzheimer's for example causes people to lose their memory. So the question is, if some part of you did survive after death, would it even be you? There would be no thought, no emotions, and no memory. You wouldn't be able to see (no eyes) or even process sight (no living nerve cells). Essentially, what you experience after death is the same as what you experience before birth. Nothing. Therefore, unless you can point to some specific part of a person that exists outside of the body, and could continue on after death then the only logical conclusion is that there is almost certainly no afterlife.
279 days ago | Tagged As: No
In my opinion, no. I don't believe we have any type of "soul" that floats around waiting to consummate somewhere else or whatever. Makes no sense to me. I think death just IS, and that's that. You die, and the end. There's no blackness to look at because you're dead. But I do get how depressing my perception is. Everyone wants to believe we have a soul within us that'll never die and people that live beyond us, will be able to sense it or enjoy their life thinking we're not completely "dead."
279 days ago | Tagged As: No
I don't believe in it. I think humans are just so into themselves that they can't accept that our conciousness is a random compelation if electric pulses in our own heads. When that stops, we die and our conciousness goes with it. But from the time we a babies in the womb till the day we die, we are all we really know and have for certain. And even some people don't really know themselves. It's a comfort to imagine that this isn't all we have, just like God is a comfort. Like your parents telling you tales of faeries that protect you from monsters under the bed, religion tells us that God has a plan and is protecting you from randomness and uncertainty. Not that it's not a good thing that most people think this way. For the most part people who believe that there is an afterlife are kind to others in this life in holes of a better afterlife. For that I am greatful, although I wish that it didn't have to be that way and others could be kind for the sake of being kind alone. However, you can never be certain. So I always say a prayer if someone dies or I see roadkill on the street, et cetera. Because had they been religious, whatever religion that may be, they probably would have wanted someone to say a prayer for them. I may not believe in religion or prayer, but I respect other's need for it.
253 days ago | Tagged As: No
We are all energy , essence and matter, We are all molecular globs. Our soul is lighter and does continue. I believe that the tunnel of light is not just death , but birth also .Afterlife does exist. Its more awsome than "heaven" , its electrical , its hard to explain , almost magical in its appearance , though it is lucid. Religion and Prayer has nothing to do with it. :)
84 days ago | Tagged As: No
How would we know? And why does it matter? And what keeps us from going out like a light, switch and it's off and gone and no more?
218 days ago | Tagged As: No
I think it is best, especially since most people agree that we don't know, to behave as if this was our only stretch. We need to make the best of the one life we are certain about.
211 days ago | Tagged As: No
I was not aware of a beforelife so there's no reason to think I'll be aware of an afterlife.
211 days ago | Tagged As: No
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