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The Chick-fil-A Debate!
Chick-fil-A is “very much supportive of the family,” according to Dan Cathy, president of the popular fast food chain. That is, “the biblical definition of the family unit,” he said.
And that doesn’t include Adam and Steve, suggests Cathy, whose father S. Truett Cathy founded the Atlanta-base
The owner of the city's only Chick-fil-A restaurant today asked Mayor Rahm Emanuel to meet with her after Emanuel said the anti-gay marriage views of the fast-food chain's president don't mesh with Chicago values.
Lauren Silich, who owns a Chick-fil-A franchise just off the Magnificent Mile that opened last year, wrote in a press release that she is dedicated to "serving all of our guests with honor, dignity and respect. ... We alone created 97 jobs this past year and our passion is building leaders for future generations, regardless of sexual orientation or beliefs."
Who cares about their political views? It's a restaurant, and so their sole purpose is to make good food. They succeed, in my opinion, so Chick-Fil-A is good in my book.
Did you know that they use their profits to help fund groups that fight to deny gays equal rights? That's right, every sandwich sold aids in the fight for "traditional" marriage and family values, AKA homophobia.
Supporting traditional marriage and family values isn't homophobic, you people need to stop thinking that agreeing with every thing thing that a group dose means you support them and that disagreeing with something a group does means you hate them.
You're joking, right? Supporting tradition family values means devaluing any other type of family. By doing this, millions of LGBT individuals are denied equal rights. You cannot support heterosexual family structure and be apathetic toward gay rights at the same time. Supporting heteronormitive ideals goes completely against giving equal civil rights to all gays.
They said they support tradition marriage, not damn gay marriage, there is a difference. It doesn't equal civil rights to all gays, it goes against marriage rights, they already have every other right. I am supportive of gay LEGALIZING gay marriage, they said they are supportive of traditional marriage, never said it should stay illegal.
They said they support tradition marriage, not damn gay marriage, there is a difference.
Traditional marriage is universal around the world (as far as I'm aware). Gay marriage has a very different position. I've never heard of anyone 'supporting' traditional marriage in such a way other than by trying to make it the only form of marriage.
It doesn't equal civil rights to all gays, it goes against marriage rights, they already have every other right.
No they don't. Marriage rights comes with a huge number of other benefits, for tax purposes, benefits, a whole shit tonne of adminstrational benefits that just makes gays in civil unions lives more difficult and detached than those in 'traditional marriages'.
I am supportive of gay LEGALIZING gay marriage, they said they are supportive of traditional marriage, never said it should stay illegal.
I've never heard of anyone 'supporting' traditional marriage in such a way other than by trying to make it the only form of marriage.
I don't support heroin and meth use, but I believe in legalization (controlled of course) of all drugs, because its their personal choice. Same thing with gay marriage (no im not saying gay marriage is like heroin or meth, thats not the point) its their choice, you can support traditional marriage but still think that gays should have the right to get married, not approving of something and being against it are two different things.
No they don't. Marriage rights comes with a huge number of other benefits, for tax purposes, benefits, a whole shit tonne of adminstrational benefits that just makes gays in civil unions lives more difficult and detached than those in 'traditional marriages'.
"Traditional marriage" ? ALright, dont act like its some new thing, marriage has been "traditional" from very early human history. As for the links, most of these "anti-gay groups" are just christian groups, their entitle to their opinion to, I mean, Progressive donates to socialist groups but I don't make them out to be evil even though I highly disagree with them.
I don't support heroin and meth use, but I believe in legalization (controlled of course) of all drugs, because its their personal choice.
That's a strawman. While it is perfectly legitimate to disagree with gay marriage, that's not what Chick-fil-a is doing. They're not just saying 'oh isn't traditional marriage so good', they're saying 'oh gay marriage is bad, traditional marriage is the only way to go'. There's a big difference between the two, yet I have almost never heard of someone praise traditional marriage without praising it to the exclusion of all other forms of marriage - and when I have, it's people trying to be ironic. Now that I disagree with, and you should too (referring to the subtext of anti-gay-marriage).
As for the links, most of these "anti-gay groups" are just christian groups, their entitle to their opinion to
Yes, they are completely entitled to their opinion. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I (and you should too) disagree with what they're saying, and that they aren't just promoting one thing, one group of people, they're pushing another down. Now that is something I very much dislike.
For example, if you're a Muslim, then I have no problem with you building a Mosque in my town. But if you're building a mosque & burning down a Church, that's something completely different. And Chick-fil-a are doing both - promoting their own opinion whilst putting down others.
Progressive donates to socialist groups but I don't make them out to be evil even though I highly disagree with them.
That's nice. But socialism isn't attempting to make peoples lives worse (even just a minorities), it's people who think they're trying to make peoples lives better. I'm also not trying to make out that Chick-fil-a is evil, simply saying that I disagree with what they're doing, just as you are doing.
You see, this isn't about free speech, it's about your feelings on gay marriage.
Look at it this way, with all of the noise you made about bigger issues being out there, consider for one moment just how much more work congress would have to go through over "just a word" to specify in every case for every possible case that the same rights are applied to homosexuals as they are applied to straights.
These specifications need to go in every time that someone makes a benefit or a responsibility in the law towards married couples. That means that every time someone leaves it out because of an error or the more likely case that they are a BIGOT gay rights groups have another battle on their hands to battle congress with.
I don't give a fuck what you want to call it in the law, just call them the same thing because they deserve the same rights and we SHOULD stop wasting our time on this issue and just do the right thing once and move forward.
You see, this isn't about free speech, it's about your feelings on gay marriage.
If you sacrifice others free speech for ANY cause your cause becomes unjust.
Look at it this way, with all of the noise you made about bigger issues being out there, consider for one moment just how much more work congress would have to go through over "just a word" to specify in every case for every possible case that the same rights are applied to homosexuals as they are applied to straights.
They have every right except for marriage.
These specifications need to go in every time that someone makes a benefit or a responsibility in the law towards married couples. That means that every time someone leaves it out because of an error or the more likely case that they are a BIGOT gay rights groups have another battle on their hands to battle congress with.
BIGOT means your against a RACE, last time I checked GAYS aren't a race! Marriage is not a right, not everyone has a right to, until very recently in human history, marriage has always been when a man and women come togeather to start a family, to act assume that everyone will just automatically accept the idea and understand and to say everyone who doesn't is a homophobe is very niave.
I don't give a fuck what you want to call it in the law, just call them the same thing because they deserve the same rights and we SHOULD stop wasting our time on this issue and just do the right thing once and move forward.
I'm not calling it anything in the law, I'm just simply pointing out that the only kind of marriage up until the past few decades was "traditional marriage" you can expect everyone to embrace the idea because contaray to common belief MARRIAGE IS NOT ONLY ABOUT LOVE that s just in our culture. I believe gay marriage should be legal but ruining thousands of peoples jobs and hurting a business will not help us do it.
"BIGOT means your against a RACE, last time I checked GAYS aren't a race!"
First entry on google:
big·ot [big-uht]
noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Go look something up and learn SOMETHING NEW before your next post, please. That's just lazy.
"Marriage is not a right, not everyone has a right"
I agree, marriage itself has little to do with rights... Until you put marriage into law, then EQUALITY becomes the right that marriage laws should concern themselves with.
"until very recently in human history, marriage has always been when a man and women come togeather to start a family."
Again, go educate yourself. This statement is objectively false.
"to act assume that everyone will just automatically accept the idea and understand and to say everyone who doesn't is a homophobe is very niave."
Who assumed any such thing? I'm out doing what I can to inform ignorant people of what they don't realize about homosexuality now while they seem to want to talk about it. What does anything more than the hope that a few minds will be changed have anything to do with it? I was once on the fence on this issue. Then I went to college and saw all the facts that disproved the lies I was taught in Christianity and all was better. Life actually made sense for a change.
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Disagreeing is not being utterly intolerant, your assuming anyone who doesn't approve of gay marriage is a bigot.
Go look something up and learn SOMETHING NEW before your next post, please. That's just lazy.
Lazy? I'm not the one who's primary sources of information are wikipedia and google.
Who assumed any such thing?
It seems as if your are.
I was once on the fence on this issue. Then I went to college and saw all the facts that disproved the lies I was taught in Christianity and all was better. Life actually made sense for a change.
First off, most college proffesors are just as baised as priests, and from the "life made sense" part, if life made sense when you realized that gays aren't bad, than dude, you still don't understand life.
Go ahead and preach that you don't like homosexuality all you want Yay free speech, yay free country! The reasons for why you would have actually been studied and it turns out that our American culture has a clear fear of being accused of being gay or having any association with homosexuality. That's what can make you homophobic.
If you're not homophobic but you don't think people are naturally gay then you'd have a clear argument for why you think it's wrong. It also wouldn't be because you think an invisible deity says it's wrong, that's just an excuse to hate what you don't understand.
The part where HATE comes in is when you push for legislation that will mistreat others just because you disagree with the existence of people on the other side. There are no laws being pushed to say that equal rights only apply to those who are not Christians. You can disagree without trying to push your beliefs through law.
If someone tries to discriminate against others directly through law it's not because they simply disagree, it's because they HATE others for not being they way that they are. That's hate, that's homophobia and straddling the line is a narrow path if it can be done. If you've got a case for someone who walks that line and is actively being protested against, let's hear it.
Go ahead and preach that you don't like homosexuality all you want Yay free speech, yay free country!
I never said I don't like homosexuality (actually for gay marriage and have gay and bi friends), I'm just stating that everyone is entitle to free speech, not just people who agree with you. Stop trying to make people out into homophobic bastards who hate gays, your putting words in our mouths.
You seem then to either misunderstand what these keywords mean or to be in utter denial of the other points being made here that more is being done than Chick-fil-a and it's supporters just giving their opinions.
"Supporting Family Values" is spin for "Supporting Legalized Discrimination." If you are saying that you understand that Supporting Family Values = Pushing Legislation For Unequal Rights, then I completely disagree with your statement that there's nothing wrong with it. How you could think that and say that it's not hate or discrimination would be beyond me if that's the case.
If that's not what you mean, then what did you mean exactly? I also didn't put words in your mouth. I gave a few hypothetical cases that would apply to anyone "If" they fit those profiles respectively. I admit I forgot to use "If" in the sentence that you quoted, but it was implied as in, "do this extreme thing if that's what you like to do."
Also, having friends or claiming that you have friends who are a part of a discriminated minority is not a point. It might help you feel better but to people listening to you try and use it in an argument sounds like you are parroting what bigots would say as their first defense. You might not mean to or you might actually be hateful in your actions but you've convinced yourself that you aren't, using your friends as proof.
It's hard to say for sure either way. But what can be said is that you having gay friends will never allow you to speak for gay people. Being gay doesn't even give you a place to speak for all gay people. The majority of gay people however can offer useful information about gay people, though nothing can be said as universally true about gay people. Personally, I'm not gay and I don't have gay friends. Inequality just happens to infuriate me like that.
That said, I would suggest you politely ask your gay friends what they think about the issue to get a more genuine perspective of why this is a topic for debate. I have yet to see an openly gay person (or other LGBTQI individual) argue for Chick-fil-a, but it's not impossible considering how much spin and misinformation is out there in the media. I'll say that only from what I can tell so far, they would not have the majority of LGBTQI people in agreement with them if they did.
"Supporting Family Values" is spin for "Supporting Legalized Discrimination."
Wrong, supporting Traditional family values doesn't mean you are against gay family values and hate them, hating someone does not mean not agreeing with their life style.
If that's not what you mean, then what did you mean exactly?
I'll explain to you exactly what I mean, I AM FOR LEGALIZING GAY MARRIAGE I am just pointing out that calling everyone who supports traditional values is not some evil bastard and you don't have the right to start making them out to be terrible people.
You might not mean to or you might actually be hateful in your actions but you've convinced yourself that you aren't, using your friends as proof.
My girlfriends bi and I was in the GSA during all 4 years of high school, dont say I hate gays and bis lol. Again, I am for gay marriage being legalized.
Personally, I'm not gay and I don't have gay friends. Inequality just happens to infuriate me like that.
Heres the thing, its not inequality (I believe it is, but thats just my opinion) in the eyes of most people. Why? Because gays have all the rights straights do except for marriage, mainly because up until very recently gay marriage wasnt even an idea, you cant expect everyone to get it all of a sudden.
That said, I would suggest you politely ask your gay friends what they think about the issue to get a more genuine perspective of why this is a topic for debate
I did, funny thing is that none of my gay or bi friends really care, one of them even went to the appreciation day.
but it's not impossible considering how much spin and misinformation is out there in the media.
Considering most people who are mad about chick-fil-a heard about it through facebook, there is alot of misinformation going around. And by the wya, your not supposed to downvote someone for disagreeing with you, you down vote them for making bad arguments.
"Wrong, supporting Traditional family values doesn't mean you are against gay family values and hate them, hating someone does not mean not agreeing with their life style."
Correct, disagreeing with what a person does with their lives is not hate necessarily, TRYING TO MAKE LAWS TO ENFORCE YOUR BELIEFS ON OTHERS IS! If you fell for the political spin that Supporting Family Values is just giving your opinion and you really leave it as that, just an opinion, then you're not a hate monger, you're just an idiot.
But the fact remains that you are here. You are against letting the law allow for gay marriage to be recognized as nothing different from any other marriage and you're trying to pretend that what you, Guitaristdog, are saying it's just a matter of supporting free speech. You're making excuses and using false claims to do it.
[b]My girlfriends bi and I was in the GSA during all 4 years of high school, dont say I hate gays and bis lol. Again, I am for gay marriage being legalized.[/b]
Then you must just still be a kid learning these things. I reiterate that knowing someone who is a part of a minority, even being in love with them does not give you the right to speak for them. What the hell was that above supposed to mean that you support "gay marriage" as "gay marriage?" You imply that you still don't want to call them the same thing right?
"Why? Because gays have all the rights straights do except for marriage, mainly because up until very recently gay marriage wasnt even an idea, you cant expect everyone to get it all of a sudden."
You are seriously missing some important gears here dude. Gays don't have the right to see their spouses in hospitals. They also don't have the right to adopt. I'm talking about in the US, not foreign nations. Civil unions are also not recognized by every state. Insurance companies get to deny homosexual couples the same rights that they would give heterosexual couples. The Defense of Marriage Act is still in play despite being recognized as unconstitutional by many federal courts. Lets not also forget how many minors are forced into gay camps to be physically and psychologically abused just because their parents think that being gay is a disease that you have to cure.
Homosexuals are being discriminated in the law TODAY and will continue to be until they are accepted as the same thing in the law, whatever you wanna call it. Whether you mean to or not, you are making excuses for your ignorance.
"I did, funny thing is that none of my gay or bi friends really care, one of them even went to the appreciation day."
You are amongst a lot of out of the loop individuals when it comes to gay rights in this country. It's way more than just a word. Google what gay rights activist groups are saying, not what your facebook friends are saying.
"Considering most people who are mad about chick-fil-a heard about it through facebook, there is alot of misinformation going around. And by the wya, your not supposed to downvote someone for disagreeing with you, you down vote them for making bad arguments."
I'm downvoting people who are making bad arguments because they are misinformed and not arguing against the points made by the other side. I've left a few untouched because I think they make a good point considering where they might be coming from, but you for example are arguing with Strawmen IOW false information to say that there is a problem where there isn't one. If it's because you haven't done your due diligence and researched or at least looked at some of the links posted here to comment about them, I understand, but I still voted you down for taking a harsh stand on something that you know nothing about.
Though I am a sound supporter of gay marriage, I have to agree with Dog on this one. Having a political or social viewpoint on something does not necessarily make you phobic of anything. Being a supporter of traditional marriage doesn't make you homophobic any more than criticizing Israel's politics makes you antisemitic, or opposing the misogynistic barbarism in Saudi Arabia makes you Islamophobic, or opposing immigration makes you racist. In other words it's perfectly possible and acceptable that people may hold legitimate political and social opinions on issues without being primarily motivated by irrational fear and hatred. It just comes across like you're trying to silence the opposition by sticking them with a mental disorder, and I really loathe when I'm the target of this tactic, so I thought I'd point it out, here.
I don't know about anyone else here but I've been making it a point to not say that ALL people were homophobic for going to Chick-fil-a. Where did you hear someone say otherwise?
No one is trying to take away "traditional marriage." The people who are saying that they support traditional marriage are really saying that they don't want homosexuals to have the same rights as they do.
There's nothing else to support politically about "traditional marriage" than that. You dislike homosexuality but you want to live and let live, then have a seminar, have a conversation, preach what you think is right. But push for legislation to deny homosexuals from getting equal rights, and you're a bigot, plain and simple. Bigots don't usually think that they are bigots. There's a ton of people out there who try to say, "I'm not racist, but I don't like black people." Own up to what your position is, whatever that may be.
Homophobia is more of a background cultural issue which is why it's easy to fling around. It's like the psychological tests that showed that even African Americans can show to have more negative feelings towards people of color than towards people who are white. People of all colors show similar results in those studies. It's therefore likely a subconscious problem within our culture.
Homophobia shows up in the same way. You should take the label as a challenge to prove to yourself that you aren't subconsciously afraid of gay people. Consider your reaction to a gay couple kissing in public vs a straight couple doing the exact same thing. Homophobia is ingrained in our culture, especially among males.
And if I may, there is nothing I want more than for people who are being bigoted to come out and have the conversation. If you have a position that doesn't ask for unequal treatment but still disagrees, then offer it. There's no silencing going on here. Talk. What do you think is different about homosexuality than heterosexuality (if you do in fact think they are different)?
Sorry, I forgot your first statement by the time I wrote that last question. Just ignore it.
Instead, hows about we ask the same question hypothetically? You gave some really good examples of this "tactic" that you don't like, but I have yet to come up with a situation in which people would be "for traditional marriage" in any political sense, but not be pushing for homosexuals to have equality in the law in the same breath.
I don't even know this restaurant, but it'd be funny if all the queens started filling up the restaurants asking for the "battered sausage" or can they have a "Hotdog between two buns" in protest.
I believe they are a privately owned company... they can do as they please. I actually had someone tell me that since I am atheist, I shouldn't eat at Chick-fil-A??? I was all like "Whaahhh?" Horse-hockey! If I like it, I will eat it!
I understand your plight. I am atheist too, but I'm protesting them. I don't expect people to jump when I think they should. If you were going there anyway and you have no stake in the argument, by all means go. I could care less.
That said, I think the reasoning of the other person might have been that as an atheist you should be against the union of Church and State and that you should understand what it's like being a discriminated and ignored minority. We do get far fewer beatings than homosexuals though, so I guess that would make it difficult to completely relate to.
WTF do you think a boycott is? I for one never told people to stop going who enjoyed the food and would have gone already. I don't like it and alongside millions of others, I won't go. You can go. I won't stop you.
But if you went on 8/1 as a part of a protest, then especially if you are trying to say that you did so over free speech, then you're wrong. No one was saying that you couldn't speak freely as an idiot, we're just using the same right to say that you're being an idiot.
I have to say I am not a fan of chick-fil-A's food nor the comment of one individual about gay marriage. But, since he cfa's are franchises, all the wrong people will be hurt if we boycott there establishments. Therefore, I would support an effort whereby people still patronize their establishments, but wear t-shirts with their views...or ask cfa to donate money for every who orders a certain meal.
Actually, those people can and probably will file lawsuits against the CEO who spoke on the subject directly to make up for their losses. Therefore, only the people who made the stupid decision to push their bigotry publicly will be hurt in the end. Or rewarded if the bigots come out of the wood works and show enough support
Dan Cathy has used millions of dollars in company profits to support anti-gay organizations. This is a publicly-known fact easily found on the internet. These groups are not just against same sex marriage, but some of them are on the same scale as the KKK. Chick-fil-a's profits support groups that support homosexuality being punishable by death in foreign nations. Therefore, when you eat that delicious chicken sandwich, know that you just helped kill a gay man in the Middle East. Know that each order of waffle fries helps to deny Americans basic human rights based solely on their sexual orientation. Workers in the company certainly aren't terrible people, but Dan Cathy and any other upper management that allow such disgusting causes are terrible people.
If you people want to boycott something in the name of gay rights without seeming irrational, why don't you go boycott Middle Eastern oil companies, they kill gays. As for them funding anti-gay organizations, they can do so if they wish, you can pretend that its getting alot of gays to be killed and discriminated against, but its really. And by the way, there are people in the upper management that gay. YOu think your just hurting the Dan Cathy when you boycott them, but your not, your hurting every employee, deliverer, supplier and any other company that takes money from people that get money from Chick-Fil-A.
And by the way, marriage isn't a human right, its just marriage you guys need to stop pretending its some big issue because its not, its a minor thing that the media uses to distract you from bigger more important issues.
I don't boycott oil companies because there is such a thing as choosing your battles wisely. First off, even if the entire country boycotted their oil, they would still make profit from the other 180 countries in the world who need oil. Second, it's a lot easier to fight a chicken franchise than it is to fight the oil companies. Society doesn't run on chicken- it runs on oil. Third, it is far more important, in my opinion, to fight for causes on my own soil than abroad like that. Middle Eastern law is not going to change any time soon no matter how much activism is present. Instead of changing that, a better solution would be to save the individuals from the tyranny somehow. But this isn't even part of the debate.
Yes, boycotting an entire company would hurt more than just the CEO. If he is a good leader, however, he would stop funding those groups to save his company. If he is that stuck in his ways, then perhaps the company would go under. Most likely, however, a new CEO would be elected or someone else would buy out the company (I'm not an expert at business). Regardless, buying their products helps to support those hate groups. That much I know. And I would never want to purchase something that I don't need if it means hurting an American demographic like that.
You seriously think the issue of gay marriage isn't a big deal? I cannot believe you think that. What would you do if you couldn't marry the person you loved? This means you don't get the same tax benefits; you can't visit your spouse in the hospital if he/she is sick; if your spouse dies, you are not next of kin; you cannot legally raise children together unless only one of you has parental rights, which means that if your children get sick, you have no right to tell the hospitals which treatment to do. Of course you don' think it's an issue- because you're allowed to get married so why should it matter? Well you know what, as soon as you are stripped of rights you will realize what it means to be a second class citizen. Heterosexual privilege is thinking something like marriage isn't really an issue because you take it for granted.
If that's not what you mean, then what did you mean exactly?
Really? You should try getting your news somewhere else besides TheYoungTurks, MSNBC and facebook.
You seriously think the issue of gay marriage isn't a big deal? I cannot believe you think that. What would you do if you couldn't marry the person you loved?
Yes I don't think its a big issue, why? Because we have a debt in the trillions the is getting bigger at a faster rate, taxes are getting higher, we are in multiple wars, we have an over filled prison system, a raging war on drugs, an economy that is tanking and the government is trying to take away our liberties, and you think MARRIAGE is a big deal? AS for "marrying someone you love" marriage is not all about love, really, if you think it is then you have obviously never read a history book or experienced any other culture besides ours.
Of course you don' think it's an issue- because you're allowed to get married so why should it matter?
Why should it matter to me? Well I do care about it and have sympathy for gays but I (unlike most of mainstream america) understand that there a are bigger more important issues and that ruining a business (and all the employee's jobs) over the CEO's opinion is irrational.
Me: "If that's not what you mean, then what did you mean exactly?
Really?"
You: "You should try getting your news somewhere else besides TheYoungTurks, MSNBC and facebook."
Could you try starting with a rational response to the question? Then, and only then, could you list the news sources that you trust? I don't trust anything on msnbc except Rachael Maddow and I don't trust facebook claims or any claims for that matter without researching them first.
"Yes I don't think its a big issue, why? Because we have a debt in the trillions the is getting bigger at a faster rate, taxes are getting higher, we are in multiple wars, we have an over filled prison system, a raging war on drugs, an economy that is tanking and the government is trying to take away our liberties, and you think MARRIAGE is a big deal? AS for "marrying someone you love" marriage is not all about love, really, if you think it is then you have obviously never read a history book or experienced any other culture besides ours."
I would summarize that every one of these issues is a big deal in that the problem is misinformation being taken in by idiots and powerful people corrupting our social structure. If we can't get people to agree on what an issue is about then we can't get their attention for anything and the US is doomed to fail. Now's a time to start making your "told ya so" signs ready.
Also, if you don't give a rat's ass about this issue compared to others and that's your contention, then quit arguing about it. Go find a debate about those other topics and leave this one alone.
"Why should it matter to me? Well I do care about it and have sympathy for gays but I (unlike most of mainstream america) understand that there a are bigger more important issues and that ruining a business (and all the employee's jobs) over the CEO's opinion is irrational."
If CFA became ruined because of a boycott over marriage rights, it's leadership would have to consider that their donations are more important than their bonuses long before it went that far. We're taking away thrift spending money that's all. If they went out of business it would be because they were such bad business owners that they decided to go down with the ship and take everyone else down with them.
That's their fault for making their business become a political engine. That's business and that's what an investment is all about, taking risks, making loads of cash when you win, and falling on your ass if you lose.
This is how boycotts work. A company does something wrong and they get backlash. The employees get a minor sting which can sooner be blamed on the company for doing something that's deserving of protest then to blame the protesters. Even if it is harmful to employees who never wanted to be involved, it's a minor sting and it's a part of life. Your boss sucks, look for more work. The time it would take to bring Chick-fil-a down with a boycott is way more than long enough to find other work, even in a bad economy like this one.
People who have been working for Chick-fil-a have already been complaining about how they are treated while working for Chick-fil-a. They have been denied being part of couples retreats offered by Chick-fil-a and among other discrimination issues they've already been sued for firing people who didn't want to engage in their prayers at meetings.
You're right, marriage isn't a human right. Being treated equally by the law however is a right. You're just deflecting. Come on out and say what you really believe. Let's talk about your basis for that.
A company does something wrong and they get backlash.
Chick-fil-a didnt do anything wrong, the CFO gave his opinion, calm down.
A company does something wrong and they get backlash.
Minor? Dude are you serious? Loosing your job because the company can't pay you is a little more than minor, especially in an economy like this. Also, this results in less people spending therefore hurting other business that aren't involved.
People who have been working for Chick-fil-a have already been complaining about how they are treated while working for Chick-fil-a. They have been denied being part of couples retreats offered by Chick-fil-a and among other discrimination issues they've already been sued for firing people who didn't want to engage in their prayers at meetings.
Really? And do we have any evidence of this? Just because someone sues over something doesn't mean it happened, most law suits over being fired are fabricated and were made for the sole purpose of getting money. Also, when a cae like that comes up, the company usually just gives them the cash even if it didn't happen because even if the case is false, the second the press gets a hold of it they will twist and distort it to ruin the companies name.
You're right, marriage isn't a human right. Being treated equally by the law however is a right. You're just deflecting. Come on out and say what you really believe. Let's talk about your basis for that.
You still think I hate gays for defending a resteraunt? You wana know what i really believe? I'm more gay marriage (and know plenty more gay and bi people than you) but the difference is I don't throw a temper tantrum when someone uses their free speech and gives their opinion on an issue.
"Chick-fil-a didnt do anything wrong, the CFO gave his opinion, calm down."
No, he did not just give his opinion, he gave his profits to organizations which promote active and legalized discrimination towards homosexuals. Stop ignoring that fact.
"Minor? Dude are you serious? Loosing your job because the company can't pay you is a little more than minor, especially in an economy like this. Also, this results in less people spending therefore hurting other business that aren't involved."
You're out of your mind if you think it's in any way more significantly damaging that gay rights activists pushed towards such a possibility with a boycott than it would be significantly damaging due to the severe negligence that a business would have to have in order to let their need for excess profits to go towards discrimination to cause their business to fail.
But let's take this argument one step further. None of the jobs at Chick-fil-a are more important than the equal rights of the gay community. If it went out of business tomorrow, it would be far less damage than the accumulation of injustices that have been happening for over a century and continue to happen towards the LGBTQI community today.
"Really? And do we have any evidence of this? Just because someone sues over something doesn't mean it happened, most law suits over being fired are fabricated and were made for the sole purpose of getting money. "
You are such an ignorant denier. Go teach yourself. I've given you links and so have others. Google is your friend, go look for the facts before you spew more false claims.
"Just" because people are getting settlements for their legal claims of discrimination and "just" because Chick-fil-a admitted that they don't like gays, and "just" because they've been denying employees who are in same sex relationships from engaging on their company retreats, that doesn't "prove" that they're a company that discriminates? How stupid are you?
"I'm more gay marriage (and know plenty more gay and bi people than you) but the difference is I don't throw a temper tantrum when someone uses their free speech and gives their opinion on an issue."
First of all, you don't know me. I don't have close friends who are gay, but I've engaged with activist groups on the matter and I've listened to the many perspectives that are out there. My girlfriend is bi too. But for the umpteenth time, you cannot use your friends or people who are close to you who are a part of a minority as a justification to think that you can speak for them.
BTW, on the point of homophobia, it doesn't strike you as odd how many more women can come out as bi than males? That's what homophobia is, it's ingrained in our culture. Look it up. Learn to read more than just your facebook home page.
"... but the difference is I don't throw a temper tantrum when someone uses their free speech and gives their opinion on an issue."
Now you have a temper tantrum defense for your position? I've been pointing out the flaws with your arguments and I've been pointing out exactly why this is an issue of bigotry. Those who are on the fence as you claim to be should leave the conversation because it has nothing to do with you.
That's not taking away your free speech, that's advising you on what rational argumentation is. You've been showing plenty of emotion in this debate all while pretending that you don't even have a dog in this fight.
I have every reason to be angry at people who try to discriminate against my fellow human beings. If we had a fair legal system I could care less about debating with you and be happy in the countless lawsuits that would ensue because people are being denied their equal rights.
Go educate yourself about something, anything, on this issue and then get back to me.
I still like Chickfila I ate something when I was in Arizona when I lived there for 3 months. I support their decision they made and I think it was a good decision.
I also support their decision to freedom of speech and religion etc. I do NOT support their decision to donate profits to anti-gay groups. Their sandwiches become LGBT hate.
You know, it's not even about gay marriage it's about freedom of speech. Regardless of what chickfila's "stance" is(who cares) people should respect that freedom regardless of if they happen to agree.
The left acts like the only people allowed rights are those that agree with them. No, they don't believe that but they ACT like that. It's funny because all they did by making this a huge deal is make chickfila a BUNCH of money. And that's just what liberals hate. (: They know how childish they're being so many wont show up to this debate. -I guess because it's not about god, that's the type of debate that's popular these days. Yeah you know who you are.
I don't believe it's a matter of free speech at all. I don't care if the CEO believes that all gays are actually demons on Earth. He can believe that and he can even be verbal about that. But the moment he begins to use his companies money to help deny gays the equal rights they deserve is the moment people should react. And he's been supporting anti-gay groups for a long time now. It's only recently become more aware in the public, although I've known about it for months. As soon as I found that out, even though I had never been to a Chick-fil-a, I vowed to myself to never go there.
It's not about free speech. I applaud the man for coming out and opening up the conversation again. The pro gay rights movement is pushing for the issue to be talked about and to dispute the claim that any of this hate mongering belongs in legislation.
Therefore, it's not about free speech. No one's telling him to shut up, they are saying that the money should not go towards the promotion of hate and discrimination. It's about discrimination in the law and it's about separation of church and state. You are naive and misinformed to think it's about free speech sir.
Did I say anyone was telling him to shut up? No. But even worse you are using the words hate and discrimination. Those are strong words to just throw around without any explanation. And you have added NO reason as to how this company is hateful OR discriminatory. So go ahead.
"they are saying that the money should not go towards the promotion of hate and discrimination."
So are you saying that when you buy a product you are promoting the opinion of the business owner?
This is very much about freedom of speech. People shouldn't have to worry about being called hate mongers for having an opinion. People like you are a hindrance to free speech. Sir.
Exactly how is labeling someone as "hateful" or "discriminating" damaging or dangerous? Seriously, paint a picture for me of a case where someone is called a "bigot," turns out that they aren't a bigot, and then loads of damage occurs as a result.
Is it any more damage than would be done if let's say someone preached about a religion that told people how to act and that they are evil if they don't follow everything that religion says is true? What about a religion that encourages holy war and actual hate towards people for their sexual orientation or the color of their skin? Or shames, punishes, and kills people for making scientific progress because it's "witchcraft?" And then suddenly, it somehow turns out that, oops, that religion it seems was wrong all along?
Which is more dangerous really? What should be taken with more precaution? Saying that you know the meaning of life and that you're going to force others to live by that same belief even though you can't prove it, or accusing someone of being hateful or discriminating?
If you need me to prove to you that Chick-fil-a money goes directly to organizations which push for anti-gay legislation, then please have the courage to be clear that that is what you are skeptical about and that if you found such a thing that you would switch sides on this issue. You should also do your own due diligence and read up on the matter.
"The comments sparked a tsunami of criticism from gay rights advocates and their allies, with a same-sex kiss day at Chick-fil-A restaurants nationwide scheduled for Friday. (Supporters rallied around the chain Wednesday, with an event dubbed Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day.)
But gay rights groups appear even more concerned about Chick-fil-A’s charitable giving, most of which is funneled through WinShape. The group received more than $8 million from Chick-fil-A in 2010, the most recent years for which tax records are available.
A fact sheet about Chick-fil-A recently issued by the Human Rights Campaign, the country’s largest gay rights group, aims its ire mostly at WinShape.
The fact sheet, titled “Chick-fil-A anti-gay: Company funnels millions to anti-equality groups,” says that the “popular fast food chain has donated millions to groups that demonize (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) people on a daily basis.”
The document enumerates what it calls Chick-fil-A’s “shocking donations” to evangelical groups such as the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Focus on the Family.
Other gay rights groups have also zeroed in on WinShape’s donations.
A 2011 report from Equality Matters, an arm of the liberal group Media Matters Action Network, said the restaurant’s “charitable division has provided more than $1.1 million to organizations that deliver anti-LGBT messages and promote egregious practices like reparative therapy that seek to ‘free’ people of being gay.""
Not all companies throw vast amounts of money towards inhumane causes like shaming and abusing young teens (minors) for what they naturally feel and calling it "therapy." What they do in those camps is in no way scientifically justified and amounts to psychological torture.
Nor do all companies take a stand against the equal treatment of a minority through legislation. Focus On The Family is a group which has actively fought against the equal treatment of homosexuals through legislation in the name of their idea of God. That's not a free speech issue, that's a Separation of Church and State issue. You can't just throw out people's constitutional rights when it suits your argument and ignore those same rights when the same reasoning backfires.
Do you still think that it's about free speech when abuse of children and legalized discrimination is on the table? If someone held you against your will and mistreated you and shamed you for who and what you are, would you think, "well, that's just their free speech talking?"
Please respond whatever your position is after being informed of this. I'd really like to know if your next step will be finding a new excuse to be bigoted or if it will be to do the right thing and just admit that Chick-fil-a is out of line and deserves to be boycotted to the extreme extent that it's getting, if not worse.
If you just like their food and wish to abstain from the debate, that's cool too. Mine is a civil protest as is the gay community and it's supporters. I'm not going to judge low level employees or regular customers who don't care about the issue. Hell I feel bad for employees who care about the issue. I don't expect them to throw their jobs away.
Of course this is a matter of personal opinion. I happen to admire their public stance, seeing as these days those who oppose gay marriage are fiercely criticized and discredited. This does not affect their food in any way either, it tasted great before this pronouncement and it does after as well.
If it was about personal opinion, that would be great. People could just have philosophical conversations about the issue and leave out the part where they openly support organizations that try to use legislation to discriminate against homosexual couples.
Once it enters law and actively defies the right to separation of Church and State, it becomes way more than opinion. It becomes a voice for bigotry in the law. Would you think it's just a matter of opinion if someone presents a law that says that Christians are not allowed to marry? It would be fiercely criticized and discredited too. What's the difference?
People who oppose equal rights for homosexuals are fiercely criticized and discredited because every point that they've made has been proven to be objectively false and they still put their hands on their ears and keep shouting their ignorance. Go on, talk. I want to hear what your opinion is and why you don't support equal rights.
If it was about personal opinion, that would be great. People could just have philosophical conversations about the issue and leave out the part where they openly support organizations that try to use legislation to discriminate against homosexual couples.
How is this not about opinion? Two camps are represented: those for and those against gay marriage. They do not discriminate against homosexuals. It has been made clear that they do not hire on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation.
Would you think it's just a matter of opinion if someone presents a law that says that Christians are not allowed to marry? It would be fiercely criticized and discredited too. What's the difference?
There is a large difference here. Christians marrying does not go against the traditional definition of marriage, while gays marrying does. I'm by no means saying this is a bad thing, I'm just pointing out the difference.
People who oppose equal rights for homosexuals are fiercely criticized and discredited because every point that they've made has been proven to be objectively false and they still put their hands on their ears and keep shouting their ignorance. Go on, talk. I want to hear what your opinion is and why you don't support equal rights.
I myself do not fiercely oppose equal rights. I do not think it has been completely proven that every point these opponents have made have been proven false. I'm not one to boycott easily. For instance, J.C. Penny has become a large proponent of gay marriage and I have no problem with that. I will not refuse to shop there simply because of that. By discriminating against Chick-fil-A, one is just continuing a cycle of discrimination. It can even be said that it is hypocritical, but I will not go that far.
People fail to see the true issue here. I read an article in my local paper about Chick-fil-a Appreciation Day and one man was quoted on his reaction to the event. He talked about how he supported free speech and was in line that day to show that support. He also stated that he was not against same sex marriage. The flaw with this is that his money went to groups that do oppose same sex marriage. By buying that food, he went against his own beliefs. And I believe many Americans fail to make this distinction.
We should not boycott Chick-fil-a because of CEO Dan Cathy's personal beliefs. The chain should be boycotted because they use their profits to insert their religious agenda in our government and they use their funds to deny homosexuals equal rights in America and abroad.
Are you taking issue with the fact that CEOs are allowed to contribute some of their profits to political causes at all or just this particular CEO's preference of lobbies?
Speaking for myself, this particular preference of lobbies. We need a few people to get into power and turn their profits against all the corruption that's going on in this country.
In most cases like this, I would say that I really don't care what they believe, and that I'll eat at a place if I like their food, simple as that. But the fact that their money is actually going to anti-gay organizations is what makes this different. I'm for gay rights, and I along with many others don't want to fund any of those organizations, even if I am doing so somewhat indirectly.
Frankly I've never even eaten at Chick-Fil-A. But the notion of people boycotting it is fine by me.
Posting here because I think this side is a little lonely. ;)
Nah, there's no Chick-fil-A near my location at all, and I hadn't heard of them until this whole ordeal. So I guess I'm indirectly protesting them.
People can support them, people can bitch about them. So long as no legal action is taken on the chicken restaurant for Don Cathy's beliefs and donations then have at it you guys.
For what it's worth though, I personally probably would avoid spending my money at Chick-fil-A for their donations. But I'm not going to start a war with a person who bought their food.
Whatever opinion you have, if you go to Chick-fil-A because you like them and this issue doesn't matter to you enough not to eat there, by all means, go, have a nice day, I have no beef with you.
If however you went there on Aug 1st because you wanted to support "free speech" or because you can admit that you are anti-gay rights, then you ARE in fact a naive and/or horrible person.
I love free speech and I hope that every bigot in the country becomes more outspoken with their desire to make laws that discriminate against people they don't understand because they are different. I want this conversation to continue so that you would stop burying your heads in the sand and letting this hate legislation slip on by without a second thought. I protest Chick-fil-a because I am pro separation of church and state and because they throw money at legislation to push their religious agenda.
I am straight. I didn't choose to be straight, and because I don't have my head up my own ass, I can see clearly that homosexual people have more in common with me than they have that's different. I also understand the logic and scientific data which shows they are better off being recognized and treated as healthy people with safe, natural, mutually consenting sexual practices.
What's more, if the justification of why homosexuality is wrong is because of the old testament, read your bible. In the same passages against gay marriage it says not to eat shellfish. Are you pushing for bans or boycotts on cocktail shrimp? I didn't think so. Quit being such a bunch of hypocrites and stop pushing your religion on people who don't care enough about it to already join your church of their own accord.
I can't shake the feeling that many of the boycotters who put rhetorical quotation marks around "free speech" in this discussion have misunderstood their opposition's concerns. I attended the anti-boycott in support of "'free speech'" on Wednesday despite, as a gaysbian myself, not supporting the causes Chick-Fil-A does and, as a vegetarian, not particularly liking their food. I did it not because I consider popular disagreement tantamount to censorship, but because I worry more about a company being effectivelydenied its right to spend its earned profits as it sees fit than about some of that money being spent on causes that I dislike. Let's be clear: this issue is centered, for conservatives, upon monetary speech rights--not Cathy's God-given liberty to have poor foresight in interviews.
Assface, The problem with your argument is that Boycotting is just as much of a right to use as a form of protest as donating money. You may as well be carrying a sign along side the Phelps family that says "God Hates F.a.g.s!" because you fear that the pressure from the opposing protesters is going to effectively deny them the right to protest.
See Matt Dillahunty on that one. He's an atheist who's pledged many times over that he would stand next to the Phelps in protest against laws that would deny them their right to free speech if ever he saw them, and to that point I would agree.
You might be a minority within a minority who has yet to get this point, but I assure you that the majority of people who went to Chick-fil-a on 8/1 went there because their homophibic pastors or their favorite form of misinformed media told them to, giving them the excuse that it was about free speech.
It's not. No laws are being suggested or made to take away CFA's right to donate. CFA is being punished by the people it's hurt and offended by their actions, not by the law. Unless you of course count the discrimination lawsuits.
