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173
168
Illogical! No! Completely Logical!
Debate Score:341
Arguments:159
Total Votes:417
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 Illogical! (79)
 
 No! Completely Logical! (80)

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The bible is... illogical

Okay, I apologize for all the Christians who are angry to me but I am just sharing my opinion okay? But it seems our opinions don't agree with eachother. The bible contains many flaws and contradictions (In my opinion) and I know the bible does contain values of how we should respect eachother and all, but it does contain illogical things and mean things like supporting sexism and slavery. For the opposing position, feel free to show how much you hate me for saying this but don't just yell, be convincing and show me all the proof you got because I want to know! And for those on my side, do your best as well! Just do this as respectfully as possible.  

Illogical!

Side Score: 173
VS.

No! Completely Logical!

Side Score: 168
6 points

The most glaring conflict I see is the assumed existence of both an all-forgiving God and Hell.

And free choice with God's omniscience. You can't have both. And if there's no free choice, how can you blame non-Christians for a lack of belief? God would know that they'd never believe, doesn't do anything that will effectively convert them before death, letting that person go to Hell. And we're back to the issue of all-forgiving again.

| Side: Illogical!
Troy8(2254) Disputed
3 points

The most glaring conflict I see is the assumed existence of both an all-forgiving God and Hell.

Since when is God all-forgiving according to the Bible?

And free choice with God's omniscience. You can't have both. And if there's no free choice, how can you blame non-Christians for a lack of belief? God would know that they'd never believe, doesn't do anything that will effectively convert them before death, letting that person go to Hell. And we're back to the issue of all-forgiving again.

And again I will tell you that God is not 'all-forgiving.' I have no idea who or what you are getting this idea from.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
saprophetic(385) Disputed
3 points

From Bible.org:

“The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7 who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations” (Exodus 34:5-7)

Punishing the guilty is not forgiveness. Neither is punishing the next generations for crimes they have not committed. Therein lies the contradiction.

More examples I have found include

"I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake; and I will not remember your sins" Isaiah 43:25

"Who forgives all your iniquities..." Psalm 103:3

Or do you choose to ignore these parts? An all-forgiving God is actually a very popular Christian belief. I'd have been surprised if there was nothing from the Bible supporting it.

| Side: Illogical!
mangoseed1 Disputed
2 points

The theology in the Bible may be always appear to be contradictory. In fact, it is a sign of contradiction, Luke 2:34. Yet, belief solely on signs should not be what Christian's believe. To the Christian the Bible is not a book but a person, "ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ," -St. Jerome.

Do we have free will if someone else knows what we will do? Of course. Whenever you look at child who is hungry for food, and put food in front of it, you know the child will want to eat it because its hungry. Well the child could also not eat it too, of which you know that as well. Still the child will choose which direction it wants to go. Whatever the child chooses, you know that the best choice, if it is hungry for food would be to consume the food and not wear it as a helmet.

Knowledge doesn't impede will. God will never bully someone into believing in Him, but He will do everything in his power to reach out to humanity always stopping short of 'making' someone believe. Hence the Bible, divine love letters from Heaven.

So how can we fully understand how can the justice of God seem to contradict mercy shown to sinners? To the Christian, we are all sinners, believers and unbelievers. Yet while we merit the eternal pains of hell, all, including those unaware of the message, Jesus has reconciled man to God. Nobody deserves or merits it. It is a gift freely offered and freely received.

The mercy of God is higher and more profound than the mercy of Man. Really, the mercy of God is justice because while He is well aware that not everybody will come to know him through the Bible, He is not not going to have it written. God is love and love will conquer death in order to be reunited with the soul of man. It is wrong that a just man die without meeting the fullness of justice Himself! It would be merciful to bring the just man, who is ignorant of Christ, to see God face to face rather than to let him perish.

To even the one who is willfully ignorant and despite all attempts from Heaven to reconcile with God, God will still be merciful and respect his free will. Its man who chooses Hell for all eternity, God simply honors the decision.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
3 points

Here's a random nonsensical fact in the bible- There are a weird types of angels called Thrones that are depicted as wheels within wheels, with eyes on its rims. The way you see angels is not how the bible says it. Of course there are the winged baby angels but there a some that are just... disturbing. Also, the figure of Jesus is not what he appears to be, in fact, the painters from the Renaissance took the liberty of painting what he looked like, so the figure of Jesus that you would see right now is actually a figure of a "handsome Italian man" who is supposed to be Jesus. Other cultures have also depicted Jesus as their own race as well. Keep in mind that Jesus was middle eastern, and wouldn't of appeared like how the artists depicted it. Also, hell is only mentioned as a placed that has fire and it sucks to be there.

| Side: Illogical!
2 points

Please Read this all before Replying:

My first reason for the bible being illogical is the fact that the bible claims that the world is 6000 years old! I mean, seriously, the space hubble telescope has prooven that universe was created from the "big bang" about 10 to 15 billion years ago. See, PROVEN with visual evidence. And also, dinosaur bones have been dated back more than 65 million years, using modern dating methods that are prooven to be extremely accurate. How can is it possible when universe is only 6000 years old!?

When you look at the night sky, some of the light from the stars you see takes millions of years to reach your eyes. The fact that you can see the stars is proof that the universe is more than 6,000 years old, and there are cave paintings from our ancestors that are 30,000 years old! Why would anyone think the universe is 6000 years old? Is it Just because bible says so? Heaps of proof are thrown at you showing you that the book you so highly value is mistaken and completely false in so many ways, and you still believe in it? 6000 years ago was in fact 1000 years after the Sumerians invented glue. Fail. They writ this book to explain things they didn't know.

And what about women?? So only men are made of the image of god, not women? Then how did women come to being, what is their image? Don't say that "man" means to both genders because that would mean God is a hermaphrodite and a hermaphrodite is definitely not the image of a man. Why is god male anyway? In the bible, Jesus even calls God a father. Aaaand, why does it say in the bible that women have no power over a man and that they have to be silent and obedient. Why did they make Adam the goody two shoes and Eve the sinner and transgressor? The bible is clearly saying that women are a lesser being to men! It says that god made the universe from nothing, but made Adam out of dirt and Eve was made from the rib of Adam and yet we are actually made up of water, oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, sodium, magnesium, Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron, Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic and Bromine. Why couldn't god make Adam and Eve out of nothing, like he did with the universe? And why does god say that it's okay to have slaves??? READ THIS:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Oh My! God has been a very naughty person lately, with all those slaves...

Seriously, Christians, do you really believe God is all good and nice? If you hate slavery (Not to mention sexism), then you will hate this verse in the bible but uh-oh, the bible happens to be the word of God, so if you hate slavery then You.Would.Deny.The.WORD.OF.GOD!!! Ooooooohh Snaaaaaap. The bible also contains instructions of how to handle slaves, and that you can beat them and also instructs when to rape a female slave O:

The bible was written by men, for men, in a male dominated society! Are you not yet convinced????

The basis of Christianity is of the bible and of god, but since the bible and god is NOT good even though they are said to be good and are said to be the cause of creation, it is called a lie. So there, the foundation Christianity just got unstable.

Okay opposition, tell me what you think about this information.

| Side: Illogical!
Troy8(2254) Disputed
1 point

the space hubble telescope has prooven that universe was created from the "big bang" about 10 to 15 billion years ago

I'm pretty sure no telescope could prove a theory about the origin and age of the universe.

When you look at the night sky, some of the light from the stars you see takes millions of years to reach your eyes.

What? This makes no sense.

there are cave paintings from our ancestors that are 30,000 years old

Can you prove this claim?

Heaps of proof are thrown at you showing you that the book you so highly value is mistaken and completely false in so many ways, and you still believe in it?

Most of the 'proof' you have provided is highly misguided.

And what about women?? So only men are made of the image of god, not women? Then how did women come to being, what is their image?

Man is referring to all humans. This is not saying that only males are made in the image of God.

Why is god male anyway?

God cannot be classified as being of an earthly gender.

Aaaand, why does it say in the bible that women have no power over a man and that they have to be silent and obedient.

Again, please provide the verse(s) that mentions this.

Why did they make Adam the goody two shoes and Eve the sinner and transgressor?

Who is 'they?' And whoever they are, this is not what they 'made.'

The bible is clearly saying that women are a lesser being to men!

Well, women are generally physically weaker than men, and men have accomplished more if you look at history. If you put 2 and 2 together, you'll find that this statement is necessarily true.

Why couldn't god make Adam and Eve out of nothing, like he did with the universe?

He chose to create them symbolically, this does not make the Bible illogical.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Oh My! God has been a very naughty person lately, with all those slaves...

World culture and morality changes over time. When this text was written, every civilization thought slavery was moral. It was fine at the time; they had no reason to believe it was unfair or immoral in any way.

The bible also contains instructions of how to handle slaves, and that you can beat them and also instructs when to rape a female slave O:

Care to reference this?

The basis of Christianity is of the bible and of god, but since the bible and god is NOT good even though they are said to be good and are said to be the cause of creation, it is called a lie. So there, the foundation Christianity just got unstable.

Your sorry idea of logic and proof did not make Christianity any less stable.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
6 points

no telescope could prove a theory about the origin and age of the universe

The Wilkinson Probe provided substantiations for cosmic microwave background radiation, Hubble's constant, inflation theory, non-uniformity of temperature and many other elements of the Big Bang theory. It provided a vast array of information about where and when the Big Bang happened.

light from the stars you see takes millions of years to reach your eyes - What? This makes no sense.

See:

http://www.khanacademy.org/video/red-shift

and many of the videos under http://www.khanacademy.org/#cosmology-and-astronomy

there are cave paintings from our ancestors that are 30,000 years old - Can you prove this claim?

The Chauvet-Pont-d'Arc Cave in France has paintings which date to more than 30,000 years. There was a controversy over whether the date could be trusted since only one lab was used in dating the samples. Other labs have been used since and the cave includes paintings of cave bears that went extinct around 24,000 years ago ref.

There are many other caves that date to more than 6,000 years which supports Kamekaze's point ref

also, here are more than 30 types of evidence that the world is more than 6,000 years old ref

This is not saying that only males are made in the image of God.

Chimps have 10 fingers, 10 toes, fingernails, forward facing trichromatic eyes, ears, nostrils, lips, teeth, a brain, heart, lungs, liver, stomach, intestines, an appendix, blood, veins, arteries, similar muscle and bone structure (ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows, wrists, knuckles) - they eat, sleep, dream, breath, urinate/defecate, communicate, procreate, die, etc.

Biblical creationists would have us believe that, instead of sharing a common ancestor with these animals, humans are made out of dirt in the image of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, space-less, timeless, all-good creator of the universe and somehow we turned out to share more than 95% of our DNA with modern day Chimpanzees.....

God cannot be classified as being of an earthly gender.

God is often referred to as father

http://stella-walsh.suite101.com/bible-study-scriptures-supporting-god-as-father-a137532

why does it say in the bible that women have no power over a man and that they have to be silent and obedient. - please provide the verse(s) that mentions this

I Timothy 2:11-14 - "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

I Corinthians 14:34-35 - "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Ephesians 5:22-24 - "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything."

The bible also contains instructions of how to handle slaves, and that you can beat them and also instructs when to rape a female slave

Care to reference this?

(care to know the bible yourself at all?)

Leviticus 25:44-46) (text above)

Exodus 21:2-6) If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

Exodus 21:20-21) When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

1 Timothy 6:1-2) Those who are under the yoke of slavery must regard their masters as worthy of full respect, so that the name of God and our teaching may not suffer abuse. Those whose masters are believers [Christians] must not take advantage of them because they are brothers but must give better service because those who will profit from their work are believers and are beloved.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14) When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.

World culture and morality changes over time

wouldn't the morality of an all-knowing ever-existing god be fairly constant?

| Side: Illogical!
Bohemian(3469) Disputed
4 points

I'm pretty sure no telescope could prove a theory about the origin and age of the universe.

I believe he is referring to Hubble's Law:

http://www.answers.com/topic/hubble-s-law

The idea is that everything in the universe is moving away from a central point, and given Newton's First law of motion, we must conclude that at one point all matter existed at this central point before it started to expand. This is what we call the instance of the Big Bang.

What? This makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense? The fact that there are celestial objects so distant that it takes millions of light-years to reach earth. This is true. Light does not move instantly, and the further away the object is the greater the time delay between when the light is emitted and when we actually see it. At the very least it suggests a very old universe.

These facts only present a challenge to Christians who hold a very literal view of the Bible.

| Side: Illogical!
4 points

Your knowledge of science is deplorable Troy! Didn't you know about all this? Okay, I will explain.

Scientists have received images of space, and the stars, that have been taken by the Hubble to learn about the universe, and have used these images of stars, the oldest white dwarf stars, is in the globular cluster M4. Astronomers also selected the closest globular cluster to Earth. M4 is 5,600 light-years away. Conceptually, the age-dating observation is as simple as estimating how long ago a campfire was burning by measuring the temperature of the smoldering coals. In this Hubble observation, the "coals" are white dwarf stars, the burned-out remnants of the earliest stars that formed in our galaxy. Hot, dense spheres of carbon "ash" left behind by the long-dead star's nuclear furnace, white dwarfs cool down at a predictable rate - the older the dwarf, the cooler it is, making it a perfect "clock" that has been ticking for almost as long as the universe has existed. This is a way find out the universes age, which is very old.

To explain your question of how we see the star's light, here it is:

The sun is huge, yet appears so small in the sky because it is extremely far away and since it is, the light that it emits will actually take 8 minutes to reach the Earth because of it's distance. Light only travels 186000 mi/sec, so it would take a lot of time to travel through far distances in space. The stars you see in the sky are much like the sun, but some are even larger, like 100 times larger or even 1000 times larger. (As you may already know) And when you see them, they would only appear as small, tiny specks of light. This means that they are very far, far away, and I mean VERY far away which leaves an awful lot of distance for the light to travel. The fact that we could see the stars is because the light has taken millions of years to reach us, okay?

The earliest European cave paintings date to the Aurignacian, some 32,000 years ago. These old paintings have been analyzed by experts, and there is no denying their extremely old age. It would take more than 6000 years to get the ancient cave paintings as aged they look now.

To your comment that questions my viability of evidence,

Most of the 'proof' I have provided is extremely viable, thank you very much.

God is male because, Jesus referred to him as "Father," and we all know that a father is not female and clearly, you don't understand the bible and it's sexism because in it, it says "A man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man." (1 Cor. 11:7) Hence is why god made Adam from dirt, and Eve from Adam's rib. And also: "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches." (1 Cor. 14:34)

And not to mention: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man." (1 Tim. 2:12-14) And also: "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off." (1 Cor. 11:6) This proves to show how offensive the bible is to women.

Your excuses to defend these offensive verses in the bible will furthermore deeply offend feminists and their beliefs, these are words from the bible. And the bible is what you support. The reason why men has accomplished so much is because they always kept their wives locked up in the house to cook and clean, so they never got to do anything. Just please keep in mind that your comments to women are a bit sexist.

Anyone with basic knowledge of the bible knows that Eve was made the transgressor in the bible and was the one who sinned. Adam is made the goody two-shoes because he, (Who represents all men) didn't give in to temptation and yet Eve (Who represents all women) did give in to temptation and easily got deceived by the serpent which made god angry, that eventually caused human suffering and sin.This gave men a reason to hate women, but women were still mistreated before-hand. This sends a message that shows that the bible clearly sees women as lesser beings. Don't you think this would be offensive? But this is not surprising, because the bible was made by men, for men, in a male dominated society.

For your response from the bible verse about slavery, I'll have you know that this is the bible we're talking about here, which is in your case, "the word of god." But god is supposed to be a perfect, all knowing being, with wiseness beyond boundary. He would know better then to condone taking control of people's lives and rights, and beating them.

Take this verse for example of beating slaves:

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

If God didn't find this immoral, then no one would, I guess it's safe to say we know better. Perhaps the bible was man-made after all.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
casper3912(1560) Disputed
1 point

Its called Doppler shift.

Stars are millions of light years away, you can measure this though various means.

Radiometric dating is pretty accurate most of the time.

If man refers to all humans, then why isn't a gender neutral term used? Is it a bad translation?

Does referring to the christian god as a she, he-she, or genderless really fit his description as well as referring to him having the stereotypical male gender. Also, Adam, as in man was made in god's image. Eve was made from Adam's rib.

I'll leave the bible quotes, to someone else but their there as I'm sure your aware.

Relative Physical Weakness and social oppression as property due to baby making and physical weakness does not constitute general inferiority.

God didn't think it was immoral, isn't that the issue. Moral relativism isn't a defense for the supreme and absolute being.

I would of just mentioned how the properties of god are contradictory, how free will is just basically a rehashing of Leibniz best world bullshit, etc But attacking the bible works as well.

| Side: Illogical!
2 points

Would anyone bother explain these so called metaphors to me because I'm quite unsure how rape can have a special meaning. :P

| Side: Illogical!
2 points

Obedience without knowledge is slavery. Oh wait, I mean Christianity.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

"I shall bring peace and harmony, right after I send this infidel to hell."

Yup, totally logical, no doubt about it.

| Side: Illogical!
chatturgha(1641) Disputed
6 points

The Bible doesn't say that, sorry. Next opinion.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Kamekaze(208) Disputed
2 points

In actuality, the bible does say that, but not straight to the point like that. I thought you knew metaphors. :P

| Side: Illogical!
Troy8(2254) Disputed
5 points

What verse are you citing? I can't recall one that says that.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
1 point

I am against the antidisestablishmentarianism of churches.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

The Bible is known to be written by Jesus Himself - He'd no doubt make His deeds seem bigger than the real thing. Jesus was probably a normal Jew who others raised up as "Son of God", and that means He would favor himself and his students. Even if He had written the bible correctly, His students were bound to rewrite it to make them look good. The bible also encourages insanity which is supposed to be a virtue to the Jews.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
4 points

One reason some people don't believe the bible is the people like you who think they do.

The entire old testament was written before Jesus was conceived and none of the people who wrote the new testament ever met Jesus and didn't write until decades after his death.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Scapegoat(28) Disputed
1 point

Jesus didn't write the bible- that's why it says the gospels ""according to John" etc. The original texts have books that were left out, and there is no proof of Jesus Christ. If you mean Jesus Christos different guy.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!

We are talking about a book that tells you to stone your daughter if she is raped...enough said.

| Side: Illogical!
Derek(10) Disputed
1 point

Where the devil does it say that? You're confusing the Christian Bible with the Islamic Koran.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
1 point

If you remove the bible completely does that mean people would have to finally have to figure it out themselves? That's asking too much!! *sarcasm.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

Full of contradictions, and hypocrisy. The KJV is probably the 13th "revised" version. The book was written by men, and plagarized. It is a retelling of the Egyptian's Osiris.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

A baseless text with no evidence, contradictory statements throughout, immorality a common theme in many of its messages... Yeah, illogical that an all-loving, all-powerful deity would have such a thing created.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

If all of the nonsensically biased, illogical, ludicrously cruel and hypocritical verses in the bible (Which is all of the bible) are meant to be ignored or not taken literally, then the god --With no capital "G"-- which is included in the bible should be treated as just the same.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

I think from a scientific standpoint it is completely illogical. In historical context it can be unreliable, but somewhat useful. As far as theology goes, it is perfect. Because that is what it is. A religious book. But used in any other context and it becomes highly illogical.

| Side: Illogical!
9 points

The Bible is actually totally logical as long as you interpret it's original texts from the perception of a religious scholar.

What's illogical is how most normal people interpret the Bible and then say outrageously illogical shit that has nothing to do with what the Bible really says.

The Bible is written so much in metaphor, that it's hard to discern many of it's points and topics and even individual words. That's why you talk to a religious scholar. They understand that the Bible tells many logical stories which were for the purpose of guiding people in ancient times.

So the Bible isn't utterly illogical.

Whatever your average Christian idiot says about the Bible, on the other hand, is.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Kamekaze(208) Disputed
0 points

What about problems with slavery and sexism, because there ain't no special meaning for that. :P

Because you don't want people saying "From what I've learned from the bible, we should take away the rights of women and keep our slaves in check because we are loyal servants of god!"

Okay, like I said before, The bible was written by men, for men, in a male dominated society.

| Side: Illogical!
chatturgha(1641) Disputed
9 points

I'm not religious scholar myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct to say that slavery is not said to be good or bad in the Bible. It's barely mentioned, and when it is, it is mentioned with indifference. The issue of slavery has nothing to do with logic, it has to do with feelings over humanitarian rights.

Besides, back then, most slaves were indentured servants or war criminals. Either way, they deserved it unless they were obtained as slaves illegally, something that any major writer in the Bible would agree is wrong... since it would be illegal.

As for sexism... yes, today, it would be sexism. But if you would notice, I pointed out that the Bible was intended to guide ancient people. What we would call 'sexism' today is what back then that they'd call 'protection'.

Limiting the rights of women back in more primitive times was their way of protecting women and their ability to have children from the horrors of war, politics, and crime. Today, we'd hate that idea, but today, we have acquired prosperity; of course it's illogical to us now, but back then, it was perfectly sensible. You're right. It was written my men and for men in a male dominated society.

But so what?

That was thousands of years ago.

Whatever perceptions you have about the world today have nothing to do with the Biblical past. Humans don't do things for no reason. They do whatever they are programmed to do over time to help them survive.

Which is why today, our entire mentality as human beings is to not let anyone be a second class citizen. And it's also way all the way back then, human mentality was to make certain groups of people second class citizens out of necessity.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
9 points

The Bible is completely logical to anyone that thinks logically.

The Bible is completely illogical to those who don't think.

It is not the Bible that thinks, it is you.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
3 points

Superb point.

Fuck the people who misinterpret a book of metaphorical teachings that was meant to guide primitive people and their primitive thoughts in the Dark Ages.

Biblical literalism is disgusting, and so is the opposing idea that Biblical literalists represent Jesus Christ.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Kamekaze(208) Disputed
1 point

Send in the swear words you say? I'm only 13 you know. We'll have none of that here. And yes, that's right, I'm to advanced for my age.

| Side: Illogical!
Kamekaze(208) Disputed
3 points

These are ramblings of a mad man! :O

Have you even read my arguments of slavery and sexism with scrutiny? Can you even read?

The bible is just a fictitious book that was written by men who weren't without prejudice.

| Side: Illogical!
chatturgha(1641) Disputed
1 point

No, you think the Bible is just a fictitious book written by prejudiced men.

His point was that the Bible was written with only one thing in mind. Since you don't know what that thing is, it is only you who thinks, not the Bible.

You are the one who is mad.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Kamekaze(208) Disputed
2 points

Okay, now that is just wishful thinking. You say "Well there HAS to be a special meaning" What about in the bible when it says that the world is 6000 years old. They didn't even have any technology to support that and we already know for a fact that it is wrong. How is there any special meaning to that? There are some metaphors in the bible but some don't apply to some verses. Why do people make up so many excuses?

| Side: Illogical!
chatturgha(1641) Disputed
4 points

Once again, creation theories were meant to get people to stop wondering about the pointless and instead tend to their societal needs. The Bible was not being literal about it's creation theory. Just because some cook of a Christan says it was literal doesn't mean it was literal.

YAWN.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Kamekaze(208) Disputed
2 points

The bible is completely logical to rapists, the ignorant, sexists, homophobes, slavers, hypocrites, the gullible, cowards, and the arrogant.

The bible is completely illogical to normal, reasonable people who refuse to have blind faith and want real truth.

| Side: Illogical!
Thewayitis(3735) Disputed
1 point

What is real? Is it that which fits nicely into what you believe?

What truth do you want? Chances are you would like it, if you knew it.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Bohemian(3469) Disputed
1 point

Yes, because certainly you of all people have proven yourself to know about logic. Do you know the difference between an invalid argument and an uncogent argument? This is a rhetorical question. Any answer you give to me will be the result of a google search.

| Side: Illogical!
Thewayitis(3735) Disputed
1 point

And nobody knows google better then the man that googles everything.

Still hunting for excuses Bohemian? I'm surprised you didn't yell fallacy. Invalid and uncogent must be today's words for the day. I'm sure we will all see them used in other debates throughout the remainder of the day. Can't wait and see what is tomorrows word.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
2 points

The bible is logical... I mean the world had to be created by some intelligent being. I mean our body it works all together and everything in our body fits in. The big bang is not real jesus is real and if anyone disagrees i don't give a shiz you beleive what you beleive and i shall beleive what i beleive.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
Trudistian(99) Disputed
2 points

you sound like a christian. "if anyone disagrees i don't give a shiz you beleive what you beleive and i shall beleive what i beleive."

| Side: Illogical!
2 points

i do not believe in God, but i think that religion is great thing to control society and avoid chaos. Bible or Koran is perfect book to develop human abilities: patience, life without bad habits, etc. Also religion gives power, hope, patience to go through problems, bad times.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
2 points

Whether you believe it is used in a good or bad way does not address the bible's coherence and logic.

| Side: Illogical!
2 points

Whenever someone quotes the Bible it always tends to be out of context. First, picking up a Bible and simply reading any passage sounds nice but a problem exists even in those days on how to interpret the texts in its FULL meaning. That is with the full intent of not only the one who wrote them but also of the Holy Spirit. Christians believe that the Bible was written by men and divinely inspired. So, of course you can expect parts of the whole text to be easily read and understood and others not. Which is why someone is necessary to translate/ interpret the scriptures with respect to the overall message of the Bible itself. I invite the person who started this debate to look into ACTS 8:30 & 31.

To anyone else interested in bashing the Bible ask yourselves why? It seems like most of the conclusions from this debate, arguing that the Bible is illogical, is not from an intellectual conclusion but from a series of premises that never end. Always reasons not to believe or prove that its illogical because of a few sentences but not because of its message.

The Bible is logical, for divinity is the fullness of reason. If we define logic as reason and divinity (i.e. God) being the fullness of reason (by definition he would have to be), then the text by which man was inspired by God, would also be logical. It doesn't matter, in fact it hardly ever mattered the types of men who composed it because the Divinity behind the messenger of the Bible still delivered the all perfect Word.

The logic follows.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
2 points

First off, its hard to decide things in this world as either completely logical or completely illogical. However, the bible is a complex collection of recollections and poetic aspirations, and within it contains various types of metaphorical references and deep abstract comparisons. The important to realize is that the bible needs to be treated as a symbol for something greater. The bible was written by "man", and it must be expected as imperfect. Finally, we must respect the bible as an articulated attempt for the "Word of God."

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
2 points

The Bible is logical because it teaches us about God. God is pretty important.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!

It isn't going to mean anything to someone who does not have the Holy Spirit. So to all you Christian, Christianity haters.....it is what it is, something you will never get.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
garry77777(1794) Disputed
3 points

"something you will never get"

I really don't know how you arrive at this conclusion, the reality is that most people including myself were indoctrinated into beleiving in Christianity during the early part of our lives and if it wasn't for our inquisitive nature would still be in its clutches so its something that i actually did get, and subsequently chose not to get when i realised it was completely untenable, its makes more sense the worship the sun than some fictional figure that only exists in a book some men wrote a few thousand years ago.

| Side: Illogical!
1 point

I am going to go with the logical side. The main reason being because it is losing and I love supporting the underdog.

I have been debating my own logic recently. I live with two people who were Law Justice and Society Majors in college. One of them is about to go to law school, the other works for the state government. And they debate logic all the time. Being around them I realize my logic sucks. I have a hard time getting my thought laid out in a clean and pretty form that makes sense and logically flows. Even now I am struggling with my thought process and how to type it out here.

I happened across this article through the google machine. I like a lot of the points on both sides and they both flow very well but I feel that you are all missing the point. Though I live with 2 law majors, i studied the Bible in school. My major was Bible. I have spent a long time studying this book and I must say that I question some of the logic. i have raised some of these same debates to my professors and colleagues and they have raised others that hurt my brain even more but I must say... who cares?

You are asking the completely wrong question about the Bible. As far as creation goes, a very common belief is that it was a poem and not meant to be literal. Why do you think Genesis contains 2 different creation accounts? And sorry I have no reference to which scholars believe either way. Feel free to discount me or go look it up yourself. But once again... why does it make a difference?

As a kid I was taught in school to follow logic. I was taught to use deductive reasoning and problem solving to get through life. That 1+1=2 so therefore 2-1=1 and so jonny can have 2 apples if Hank would leave the room and he can steal one. But like I said earlier... I am not that good at logic games, well at least not as good as some people.

So when I look at the Bible I am really not a good judge of logic. I can argue theologically that because I am human it is not supposed to make complete sense to me... but how can I walk away with that? That is not a satisfying answer...

But my question is: does it have to be logical? Why does it have to be 1+1=2? Why can't it be Apple+Pair=tuna fish?... now that makes sense... because the good book says that an apple and a pair caused the fall of man... and I think the fall of man is about equivalent to tuna fish... it stinks.

If your concern about the Bible and about Christianity is logic, then I am so very very sorry. If that is your concern with any religion then i am... very very sorry. Because you are missing the entire point. It is a love story. So whether it is real or made up or a poem or literal... why is that so important to you? You are 13. Where is your belief in magic? I never asked how logically a man and his people knocked down the walls of a city by marching around it and then blowing horns and screaming at it. That is the stupidest battle plan i have ever heard, and i was raised by marines. I have heard a lot of about battles and plans. But instead I enjoy the story about a man who was absolutely terrified of his new responsibility, terrified that he could not live up to the person he was following, terrified that his people would rather be enslaved than follow him, and was told over and over and over again that he was not alone. And then was shown through an illogical, unreal, majestic act that he would never be abandoned. Man that is beautiful.

So please I implore you to ask a different question! But I dont know, maybe I am just an uneducated blind fool who accepts what he hears... but what I do know is that there have been times when I am terrified of my new job, of not living up, of failing the people counting on me and I had someone to relate to... an old story passed down through tradition. Didn't matter at the time whether it was true or not, the point is that I wasn't alone, I wasn't abandoned.

I think the Bible is logical. i think it flows from one testament to others. But I am not gonna be upset or stumble in faith if you bring up an illogical point. The points about slavery and sexisim have nothing to do with logic, mainly morals. unless you argue that they contradict (i.e. how can God say he loves everyone equally but yet condone such acts) that is still more based morally though. The point about creation is a little more about logic, well more facts. It doesn't prove the bible illogical because it states one fact different than your information. It in fact makes a better logical argument by tracing genealogy (Adam living however long, having seth who lived however long, and finally to Abraham who lived however long and so on) The argument makes sense... if Adam is the first man and we know his family line and we have a clear date on someone in that line and we know their ages then we can trace the line and move back (Abram being around 4000 b.c. and moving backwards to find the date) It makes sense... though it may not be correct facts, the logic still flows rather flawlessly in my opinion.

For the record, if it isn't obvious, I am a Christian. I follow Christ as my Rabbi and

I guess what you are trying to argue isn't that the Bible is illogical but that it contradicts itself and reality so therefore it is a false book. Still the wrong question but better I think. However, once again, i suck at logic so what do i know.

I love my God more than anything else in this world... no matter how illogical it may seem.

| Side: No! Completely Logical!
1 point

Also just realized this article/debate thingy is over a year old, if not 2. Yikes! So you are no longer 13 and I feel silly for bringing this back up. But I guess i found it on a good night where I was debating logic. Helped me clear things up in my mind anyways. Thank you!

| Side: No! Completely Logical!


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