CreateDebate


Debate Info

29
30
Yes, why? No, why?
Debate Score:59
Arguments:27
Total Votes:70
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes, why? (12)
 
 No, why? (15)

Debate Creator

Nichole(689) pic



Are 'women' really that irrational?

Over and OVER women are being listed as hard to understand because they're an irrational species? But is this a sexist generalization or is it true? What is so hard to understand about women?

Yes, why?

Side Score: 29
VS.

No, why?

Side Score: 30
8 points

What is so hard to understand about women?

In my experience, most of the time they don't know what they want.

And when they do, they never get to the point and tell you what it is.

Men are guilty of that as well. But women even more so.

That's why they appear to be irrational.

Side: Yes, why?
wacko(114) Disputed
4 points

A man claims that he wants to please a woman and asks what she wants. She tells him clearly, once, of which goes ignored or unheard as he finds it hard to stay focused. The man claims to still not know what the woman wants, so she tells him again in detail, to which the man tries to do but gets it wrong, as he wasn't really listening to her, as she just goes on and on.So again he asks her what she wants, this time, trying to please her, he gets her something he thinks will be better as she doesn't really know what she wants and he obviously does. Then when she's screaming and yelling about how he never gives her what she asks for, he screams back that she's being irrational. So just who is the irrational one?

Side: No, why?
nagtroll(274) Disputed
3 points

so hard about women?

they know what they want.

they never tell you.

Side: No, why?
4 points

I have found in personal relationships that it isn't that women are irrational. They are just so goddamn annoying because they can't just answer a simple question. The irrationality comes when they refuse to answer said question and the guy tries to do his best with the lack of her input and she becomes irrational because he didn't do it the way she wanted. For example. Guy asks a girl over to watch a movie. she comes and he asks what movie. she says you pick... I don't care. guy picks his favorite, "Good Luck Chuck" the girl sees it and says why'd you pick this movie. guy says he just picked one he liked. she gets pissed and says why didn't you put on something we both enjoy. Simplest answer. Guy has no idea what girl wants because she won't answer the first damn question.

Side: No, why?
chapulina(152) Disputed
1 point

Very nice of you to downvote arguments on the other side and then come here to tell us about your previous experiences with women.

Side: No, why?
kayle Disputed
1 point

Hon, this is a bad example. You said yourself you chose YOUR favorite movie. She said she didn't care, assuming that you would at least consider something you knew to be within the range of her tastes because you asked her to be there and to participate. Why would she anticipate that you'd ignore her altogether because she showed no specific preference? In other words, if you were asking her over, why did you ignore her in your movie choice and still expect her to watch? I don't ask other people over to watch me watch my favorite movie.

If you don't know what kind of movies she likes, then you might want to ask yourself if that's because she's hiding it from you or if you're not paying attention.

Her poor choice of language is just that, not an example of irrationality, unless you expect your girlfriend to expect you to be completely selfish whenever given the chance and for her to ignore it. Which, if you ask me is pretty irrational, too. Or is it just immature?

Side: No, why?
jbrid13 Disputed
1 point

It's not her poor choice of words that is the irrationality, rather her anger. He asked what she wanted. She said he didn't care..She lied, and got mad that he didn't see past her lie. All she had to do was give her opinion on the matter. She lied and said she didn't have one, when she could have saved her 2 wasted hours and an argument in 5 seconds.

THAT is illogical.

She assumed that someone was going to consider your feelings on a subject when you clearly stated that you have none (I don't care). He did consider her feelings by asking in the first place.

THAT is illogical.

Rationality would denote that if she truly didn't care what movie they should watch and would enjoy it anyway, the rational thing to watch would be pick a movie that you know that you would enjoy.

Instead, your argument gave incite on how women behave:

1) They are indecisive.

2)They lack communication skills.

3) They are presumptive .

4)They lie unnecessarily.

5)They are irrational.

Side: Yes, why?
3 points

I guess this is referring to my 2+2=5 statement... actually, that isn't used by guys... I just used that to make a 1984 reference.

It's not lack of education that makes one think that way, it's lack of the ability to separate emotion from logic. Women have a harder time from doing this than men do, a much harder time. This comes from the 50,000 more connections between the left and right hemispheres of the brain that exists in a female's brain.

Are women completely irrational? Of course not, that's impossible. But the ability to reason is much more difficult in a woman than in a man just because of the natural biological make up of the two separate sexes. Men think much more simply than women. They think linear and focus on what makes most sense. Women, on the other hand, focus on emotional aspect of situations, causing an non-mathematical response to a scenario, which men can not understand. Since the response is non-mathematical, it's impossible for men to determine how exactly that happened because the female response will just not make sense to them. You'd have to have psychological understanding of the female to not get brain hurts when trying to make sense of their actions. This is why I use the term 2+2=5, because that is exactly how a woman's thought pattern appeals to men.

Side: Yes, why?
3 points

I find that with guys, like myself, we are very open with how we feel toward people and we will tell people whether of not we enjoy doing something. Like this one time recently that this guy was taking too long in the dining hall, so the girl he was interested told me that was should just leave without him. That's when I replied "How would you feel if we just left you by yourself like that?" and stayed. lol. I don't mind if I hurt somebody's feelings. I'm very forward.

Women, on the other hand, say they don't mind doing something (like seeing a certain movie on a date) and then bitch about it to their friends! I've heard way too many stories about that. Guy asks which movie. She says she doesn't care. He picks. She secretly hates it, but never tells him. She bitches to her friends. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Side: Yes, why?
2 points

I can write volumes on this subject and fully expect women to mostly, if not entirely, disagree. I will happily receive the disagreements as validation of the truths within my statements.

First, there are basic scientific differences in our brains and hormones. These differences DO NOT infer that woman are incapable of logic, but merely arrive at the same conclusions to a question or problem via a different routes. However, HORMONES and the differences in our brain make EXECUTING logic more challenging for women especially in emotional situations that arrive in relationships and other bonds.

To say that women are generally illogical does NOT mean they are completely devoid of logic. As we know, women are quite manipulating resulting from early survival instincts due to a lack of physical strength. This takes calculation and, therefore, reason. Due to women's natural inclination to nurture, women are more emotional, as nature required, to bond them with their offspring as a means of protection and survival of the species.

Women have quicker overall emotional triggers, to get to the point. Their emotions are fundamental to being a woman since it's also a part of their survival instincts and connected to their intuition. Since they are intuitive, they enjoy the realization of an unspoken essence to life and seek that in men as well. We can now begin to see where the irrationality enters.

Although it may be objectively rational that men and women have different survival instincts, IT IS irrational to expect EITHER gender to act outside these instincts. Women are guilty of this irrationality when they expect, need, hope,etc. that men will be able to respond intuitively. They seek that which is not said.

As men, some of us are aware of this need, but cannot satisfy it. We can identify it, yet not feel it. So, we rely on reason to solve women's emotional subconscious need since an intuitive emotional solution from us is simply NOT POSSIBLE. However aware women are of this, they still can't stop insisting on fulfilling their emotional need. This is the irrationality.

What's worse is that women ARE capable of logic and are generally as smart as men, although statistically, men are found in fields where detached reasoning is prevalent such as the sciences. Since men are better at compartmentalization, this produces more geniuses.

Women's brains are more integrated which is also why they have a better memory especially toward emotional events. This integration, however, has a severe draw back since emotion is integrated in all their observation and recollections. This is not true of ALL women and factors such as age and testosterone levels correlate this.

It may just be as simple that the differences in our survival instincts are only integral to the physical survival of the offspring and NOT the survival of the relationship between men and women hence the complete differences and acrimony that arises. We never escape our instinctual base urges.

.

Side: Yes, why?
1 point

Yes...

Irrational: not logical or reasonable

Logical: That which comports with sound reasoning.

Reason: the capacity to think, the process of considering one's environment; 'to make sense of things...'

Woman: "Do these jeans make me look fat?"

Examine the twisted, irrational paradigm of this typical female query...

Now this is not to say that all women are irrational, or that men are not capable of losing it.

But where men lose it, it is safe to say that they're acting like a woman.

Now some will disagree, but to prove the point consider your own reaction, with respect to your gender, as you read the answer to the query noted above:

"No... Your face makes you look fat. The jeans just reinforce it..."

Side: Yes, why?
3 points

As one of 7 girls studying engineering among 160 boys, I must say I'm not comfortable at all when people come with the simplistic view of the world that "women cannot think as logically as well as men can". Taking this is a "truth" about how the world really works, we are implying that a man who has a harder time thinking logically than a woman, and tends to be more guided by his emotions, is less of a man, and that this woman is less of a woman. This implies that men have a tendency to make bad artists and women tend to be bad scientists.

I know what experts say about the differences on the way the brain works, but for me, this just doesn't seem to be really explaining the world I see around me. However, it's possible that I don't fully understand what they actually mean... I'd be glad if anyone can make it clear to me if I'm saying something stupid...

It seems to me that this "irrationality" of women is more due to nurture than nature itself. Back in Brasil, my female and male friends equally share the engineering classrooms. Specially in the top universities, it's about 50/50%. (I didn't manage to find much online data on this, so you have to trust me on this one until I get some proof, if you want...) My point is: here in Japan, where women grow up being treated as inferior in logical thinking, they seem to take it as truth and restrain from pursuing paths such as engineering (only 4 of the 7 girls in my class are Japanese). Whereas in Brasil, where women grow up learning to be more independent and equal to men, they don't seem to be as "irrational" as some might expect.

Side: No, why?
tathomasa(1) Disputed
1 point

Evidence of of the ability to preform logic, is not evidence to debunk the more commonly

occurring existence of irrationally found in the average woman.

It is difficult for women to understand their average inferiority in logic, because some women are born preforming logic quite well and they break the statistic, but most women simply see male logic as the lack of emotion. This is constantly reinforced by situations where a woman become emotional for seemingly no reason, and the man not understanding this doesn't reply in the manner her emotions desire for. What is really going on is "WTF just happened?" Not necessarily: "Oh brother!" What is going on in her mind is, " I have feelings, why doesn't he care about my feelings, does he have feelings at all?" that is the fundamental difference in many situations that women cannot see, which give men the logical advantage a lot of the time. She is thinking: "I feel emotion." He is thinking: "How can I make sense out of this?" Only by actually viewing this as a more logical person observing a less logical and more emotional person, only then can one really understand the difference for themselves.

It is also a fact that intelligence and the powers of deduction are increased in life form that take longer to develop their brains, because of the amount of Nero-pathways available to dedicate to new information. These major differences are what set apes, elephants, dolphins and humans above other life forms in intelligence. Our brain are dense with slowly maturing Nero-pathways

Even more so humans take more time then apes to develop mentally, thus they are more intelligent.

This average difference between men and women help give men the edge on logic and intelligence on average. We see at least a 20% crossover in gender traits, so not all men have this edge, and some women, have it too. This is only true on average, and thus we only see it's results on average.

However having an edge on something doesn't grantee superiority in execution. Since many factor can lead to a less naturally intelligent person to become more educated then a more naturally intelligent person. Also being born with an advantage doesn't mean that the advantage will be utilized.

Does the male advantage in mental development make women inferior to men? Absolutely not, and in most cases these female differences are most often irrelevant to the quality of performance in every day life. Regardless of this advantage, women are still perfectly capably in functioning well enough with logic to be a model citizen, student, and employee. It is however a good reason why even today with women dominating education and the job market, men are more likely to be geniuses then women. Just not guaranteed.

There is one factor in the male advantage that can "sometimes" effect every day and career life. that is the Neurology studies that show that women people are experiencing emotions they are not adequately assessing logical thinking parts of their brain. In short, it has been proven by actually physically studies of neurology in men and women that, not only are women more emotional then men on average, but regardless of gender and any who is emotional, is not thinking clearly or at all in some cases. for some women this can be controlled relatively easily or at least worked around, but many women who suffer from contributing hormonal problems, find they have a harder time with it. For most women the issue is situational and they can easily regain composure, however not every life situation allows for a person to take the time to pull themselves together. This is why there is a corneal of truth that seems to legitimize the fear ow women making important decisions. this fear seem more rational to be held in women, but it is only true on average, so that means there are plenty of men who can have the same problems.

Although it is important to understand these things, they are not the basis to justify gender discrimination.

Side: Yes, why?
prasshant(1) Disputed
1 point

seven of 160 is less than 5% and your basic arguement itself is flawed when you try to defend all women. Some women maybe rational minded and logical but in general most women are a little gone in the head. I dont really blame them - if men bled for a week every month and had to go through the pain of childbirth, they would probably be the same. Call me sexist but men and women share different physiological structures, now tell me why should the psychology be the same ? Sure, the basic structure of the human brain remains the same but the way its wired maybe different

Side: Yes, why?
3 points

The American Psychological Association says no:

http://www.psychologymatters.org/nodifference.html

Side: No, why?
2 points

No, we're not that irrational. We do on occassion make decisions purely based on emotion, without any basis in reason, but this is rare, and arguably occurs just as often in men as in women.

Irrationality is defined as " not endowed with reason or understanding (2): lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence". Women are endowed with reason and certainly have mental clarity.

And we certainly don't have numerical values that continue infinitely without repetition. Therefore we are not irrational.

Side: No, why?
nagtroll(274) Disputed
1 point

We're irrational.

We make decisions purely based on emotion, without any basis in reason...lacking normal mental clarity or coherence.

Side: Yes, why?
1 point

pi = 3

The minimum length for an argument is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.

Side: Yes, why?
wacko(114) Disputed
1 point

Most women make decisions using their better judgement and weighing up the facts. Most women have a firm enough grip on their emotions to not let them totally rule their life and dont run around whilly nilly ranting like crazy fools. The last time I saw an incoherent woman, she was blind drunk. I'm sure if women are as you describe, there would be none in the workforce, or in marriages for that matter.

Side: No, why?
2 points

No since when you don't understand something it won't make any sense. Generally when something doesn't make any sense or seems irrational your missing part of whats going on. Hence its not being irrational its just misunderstanding what the problem is. If you can find out what the missing piece of information is then it won't seem irrational. Oh and when men aren't understood we are generally referred to as being dumb or an idiot its not just one sided. Its just that we generally identify the same problem differently. Men being dumb and women being irrational. Although sometimes men are just dumb and women are just irrational and vise versa.

Side: No, why?
2 points

Women are not equal to men; their representation in government, economic institutions, and social institutions (as leaders) are not prominent given their numerical parity with their opposite gender.

Women are underpaid, overworked, and are rarely in positions of power and authority. This, though changing, still leaves them at a disadvantage to men.

The reason for this; though, is not any biological differences (by all accounts women are actually stronger and healthier than men). The difference is accounted for in the women's perceptions of themselves, what they feel their place is, their unwillingness to engage in economic, social, or even violent conflict. This stems from social indoctrination, familial indoctrination, and their own inability to break free from these influences and knock down the structures that oppress them.

If women are going to become equal to men they are first going to have to become as ruthless, cutthroat, strong, courageous, and aggressive as men. Women are going to have to show themselves to be the strong creatures that they are; women are going to have to take their rightful place as masters of their own destiny, by any means necessary.

Women can't be victims anymore; they must train themselves to fight, they must teach their daughters to fight (not just with Karate classes but showing them to stand up for themselves in a number of ways). Every woman should know how to defend herself; legally, physically, economically, socially; they must make men know they cannot be taken advantage of.

Every culture, every nation, every class, every religion, every ethnicity, each gender; sexuality; the only way they achieved equality, dominion, freedom, and security is through their ability to defend themselves and maintain their status as free and independent beings. If women are to break free of their chains they must do so in kind.

Side: No, why?
1 point

I become more annoyed and annoyed seeing men say women are so irrational as if we accept "2+2=5." That's not irrationality, that's lack of education, and it sure doesn't apply to the majority of women.

I think there's been a misconception... women aren't irrational, we're rather seen as "emotional." Emotional to the point of "don't fuck with me." Which I guess I can see how the emotions can lead to a sense of irrationality, but do you men also realize we're mainly only really emotional one awesome week a month? At least, that's how it applys to me. I don't become irrational through it, but I do become an emotional "fuck off."

Therefore, I do think this 'women are irrational' statement being made by men is ridiculous and sexist and flawed. Men are seriously just as irrational a species.

Otherwise, I'm interested in hearing what you men find so hard to understand about women. So, we, women, can sit here and bring you enlightenment and solve all your problems.

Side: No, why?

We're no more or less irrational than man are but in a different way. Men think we rule with our hearts and women think men rule with their mind only. Nothing wrong with that because we need that balance in order to have good relationships. Women can certainly think every bit on their feet as a man can but I think she'd prefer not do unless she must. Look at all the brouhaha Mrs. Sotomayor brought to bear when she made that "Latina Woman" remark. Yikes, I thought they'd roast her for it. But they understood what she meant, thank goodness.

Side: No, why?
1 point

I thought men ruled with their dicks? :-)

Find it funny yet that women are saying no and men are saying yes? Ha.Ha.Ha.

Side: No, why?
1 point

Absolutely not. Women and men are both emotional. Women are just more expressive. There is nothing not to understand. The stuff they say is usually very heavy and meaningful which men tend not to grasp because that is not how they evaluate things.

Side: No, why?
1 point

What do you mean by 'irrational', do you mean women cannot think critically? Do you mean women cannot reason logically? Or do you simply use the word 'irrational' to mean 'more emotional' like so many people do? If you mean the latter (more emotional) then, I disagree. Men have emotions too, the fact that society makes it more difficult for men to display those emotions publicly does not mean men are not influenced by them.

If, on the other hand, you are asking if women are less able to think critically than men, I disagree again. Critical thinking is not innate, it's something you learn, something you develop. It's not gender specific. The same can be said for logic. Rationality requires practice. Women are not innately less rational than men. Perhaps women are less encouraged to be more rational. Perhaps we are still governed by old-fashioned and rigid ideals of what masculinity and what femininity are.

Side: No, why?