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43
29
This is historical evidence There are only religious texts
Debate Score:72
Arguments:79
Total Votes:77
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 This is historical evidence (40)
 
 There are only religious texts (19)

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Is There Any Evidence That Jesus Christ Ever Existed at All From a Historic Perspective.

I have entered a debate with a friend on this subject. My position is that Jesus is completely mythical and there is no evidence to offer that even the person described in the Bible ever existed. My friend however is a Christian. So I would love any input on the subject.

This is historical evidence

Side Score: 43
VS.

There are only religious texts

Side Score: 29

I have read thousands of pages form books by theologians as well as secular and non-secular historians on the subject of the man named Yeshua of Nazareth. I am also a Born Again Christian who was saved a couple years ago and is planning to devote his life to the Ministry. I begin in the Fall at Unity Seminary in MO.

Here is what I believe about Jesus...

He did in fact exist and conducted a brief ministry in Roman occupied Palestine from roughly the years AD 29-32. He was crucified by Roman authorities under the command of Pontius Pilate for political insurrection and rabble rousing.

He had a cult-like following of Jewish peoples, who were a splinter sect from the traditional Judeans. They were also enemies of the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin.

Jesus probably did perform some spiritual healing, and he won many converts. His message was bascially that the Kingdom of Heaven is indeed upon us, but it can be attained from within out own minds and hearts. He probably claimed to be a Son of God but at the same time was telling us that we too can be sons and daughters of God.

this is what he meant by The Kingdom of Heaven is Within.

He was not divine, nor certainly was he not God. But he was very in touch with our Creator's Will and Mindful Force, which can be tapped into by is today if we accept Him.

Jesus' Resurrection was not a physical one but rather a Spiritual one. After his death His disciples had spiritual awakenings as to what His Message was.

Jesus was more of what we now would call "new age" than most people think. He likely believed in Reincarnation and maybe studied with the Eastern Mystics or the Essenes during his so called "lost years" from between his ages of 14 and 30, when the Bible says nothing at all about him.

The whole "Jesus is God" dogma was invented by his followers in the years after his death, and JC's attributes steadily increased as Christian persecution did. This is why in the Book of John, the last Gospel written, Jesus is all of a sudden "God" and the alpha and omega." the farther we get from his death in the gospels, the more his Divine qualities seem to grow. this is why Paul--whose letters preceded the Gospels--say noting about Him being God. Nor does Mark, the first written Gospel.

He DID exist. He was a wonderful Holy Man and Philosopher. Our lives can be greatly enriched from his teachings.

But he was NOT God.

There is one God...our Creator God. Who was Jesus' Father and is ours too.

God Bless.

Side: This is historical evidence
2 points

Thanks Demon_Hunter I enjoyed the thought and perspective of your response, good luck in your ministry.

Side: This is historical evidence
1 point

https://youtu.be/zrRQqYGf4O0

Boob will present a bogus list of "historians" which includes who knows how many people who are not historians and did not record history, such as "Plliney the Elder". I'm sure if you research the list of names he provides you will find many if not most and maybe even all of those names were not historians.

Boob will also try to copy and paste impressive lists of disinformation designed to prevent you from investigating the facts for yourself as his junk is presented as authoritative so you are supposed to feel like you are informed when in reality you will be disinformed and misled to think you know things you have not worked to research to prove your knowledge.

Boob is angry at God and is obsessed with insulting Christians. He's a nasty guy toward Christians, but somehow he claims to be Mr. Nice guy and I don't buy his act.

Take the time to watch the video presented, it answers Boobs key points extensively and if Boob springs something like his "list of historians", take it with a grain of salt...of that long list, it only took me a minute of googling the names to see it's bogus to say they were historians.

Boob has not researched his own material, and that was obvious by the way he tried to tell me Pliney the Elder was a historian......Brittanica online proves Boob is using bogus material, and that is because his argument is bogus and depends on using bogus sources or calling good sources bogus......Bob just plain hates God, hates Christians, hates the Bible because he wants to escape his problems in death and God won't let him off the hook so he's throwing tempter tantrums at God and Christians.

Side: This is historical evidence
smilinbobs(600) Disputed
2 points

Lets be honest Saintnow, the list of authors & historians that were writing relevant historically correct information has grow to over 100. This can all be independently verified by a large number of sources.

I have never posted disinformation or you would have been able to refute the info instead of banning me from the debates where I supplied real information.

As always you somehow make the claim that I am angry yet I have never spoken an ill word to you or about you and I have no animosity toward Christians at all.

Last as I have stated so many times before I'm an atheist which by definition means that I can't hate God as you claim. There is no such entity to hate. You think that since I won't acknowledge your imaginary God that equates to hatred, Untrue.

If you care to offer evidence instead of spiteful rhetoric I would welcome the debate. Normally you just insult and ban me from your posts so it is going to be way out of your comfort zone.

Side: There are only religious texts
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Liar, your list of historians is disinformation. You act like Pliney the Elder is the main proof of your point that your list of historians never mentioned Christ, but Pliney the Elder was not a historian. I researched it, you obviously did not research anything, you simply go with copy and pasted garbage assuming it is true and presenting it as if it is true. Do your homework Bob, google Pliney the Elder and you will see he never was a historian. He did some work in natural history studying animals, that is not a historian. He was a man who preferred to stay out of political areas, never recorded human history. Your just a big mouth pretending like you know stuff you don't know, typical atheists, you hate God you hate the Bible and you hate Christians and when you say you don't, you are a liar. I can see the hatred oozing form your eyebrows in many of your long rants of combined dozens of insults hurled at Christians, God, and the Bible.....you can see it in Dawkin's face when He speaks with a real Christian, I'm sure you get that same demon look on your face.....and the same fake face of playing dumb which atheists get when they say "God? I don't know of any God?" and they sit there like little children with cookie crumbs on their face trying to deny they have been in the cookie jar. You're only fooling yourself, Bob, you don't fool me at all.

Side: This is historical evidence
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You're a liar, Bob, you posted that garbage about Pliney the Elder, I spent three minutes researching Pliney the Elder and proved you had never researched the list you presented as true and proved the list is bogus disinformation. I ban you because you can't be honest about anything and you just want to go on and on jumping from one stupid rabbit trail to the next, and when I hit the rabbit with a bullet you leave the rabbit on the trail and jump on another trail trying to get me to chase you. I can't stop you from going to Hell, Bob. Run, rabbit, run, you are your problem, not mine.

Side: This is historical evidence
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

Liar, you hate God and try to make a career out of insulting God, the Bible, and Christians, a Dawkins wanna-be

Side: This is historical evidence
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

I ban you because you ignore anything that proves you are lying, such as how you ignore the fact that your list of historians is a compilation of disinformation after you claimed Pliney the Elder never mentioned Christ in historical writings , said he was a historian who preceded his son, Pliney the Younger. I googled Pliny the Elder which is probably ten times more research I put into your garbage which is fake disinformation, only took me a couple minutes to see you obviously never research the things you copy and paste to see if they are honest. Pliney the Elder did not write of Christ for the same reason he wrote of nothing regarding the annuls of anything to do with the Roman Empire.....HE WAS NOT A HISTORIAN. I'm sure since Pliney the Elder is held in such high regard as a historian on your bogus list of historians that many, most, and maybe even all of the "historians" you quoted never were historians AT ALL!! Prove me wrong, I have seen enough to know you are using fake garbage which you have not researched, garbage compiled by liars like yourself who have no morality when it comes to insulting and lying about Christians, God, the Bible, Hisotry, Science, or anything you feel like distorting to make you feel like you really do get to escape your miserable hopelessness in death and you get out of your life unpunished. Keep on smiling Bob.

Side: This is historical evidence
Cuaroc(8826) Clarified
1 point

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL71922DE34C9673BD (how to make a christian's head explode)

Side: This is historical evidence
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I saw enough of how to torture and kill Christians, started with crucifying Jesus Christ, thanks for the link anyways. I'm sure you can enjoy it without me.

Side: There are only religious texts
1 point

Bob, those people who started this "Jesus is a myth" garbage are smarter than you, they know there are a lot of fools like you who are desperate to believe Jesus was wrong when He said liars will be in Hell fire forever, so they came up with this "Jesus is a myth" garbage based on falsified purely fantasy versions of history knowing fools like you will promote or pay for their books.

The same with Richard Dawkins, making a sucker out of you. You sound like a Dawkins trained parrot, repeating the ten or twenty arguments Dawkins uses and not accepting any logical or scientific contradiction....you're duped, Bob, and if you wont' believe the fire of Hell torments sinners except by finding yourself in that fire and unable to escape, that's the way you will have it. You're being a fool, following liars and haters, and making yourself into one of them. Wake up Bob. You don't even know I'm your friend/.

Side: This is historical evidence
1 point
Side: This is historical evidence
0 points

Read "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobal....................................

Side: This is historical evidence
2 points

I'm pretty sure that no historical evidence proves that Jesus of Nazareth existed. Do I believe that he existed? Absolutely. Do I believe that he was the Son of God? Absolutely Not.

Side: There are only religious texts
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

https://youtu.be/zrRQqYGf4O0

Boob will present a bogus list of "historians" which includes who knows how many people who are not historians and did not record history, such as "Plliney the Elder". I'm sure if you research the list of names he provides you will find many if not most and maybe even all of those names were not historians.

Boob will also try to copy and paste impressive lists of disinformation designed to prevent you from investigating the facts for yourself as his junk is presented as authoritative so you are supposed to feel like you are informed when in reality you will be disinformed and misled to think you know things you have not worked to research to prove your knowledge.

Boob is angry at God and is obsessed with insulting Christians. He's a nasty guy toward Christians, but somehow he claims to be Mr. Nice guy and I don't buy his act.

Take the time to watch the video presented, it answers Boobs key points extensively and if Boob springs something like his "list of historians", take it with a grain of salt...of that long list, it only took me a minute of googling the names to see it's bogus to say they were historians.

Boob has not researched his own material, and that was obvious by the way he tried to tell me Pliney the Elder was a historian......Brittanica online proves Boob is using bogus material, and that is because his argument is bogus and depends on using bogus sources or calling good sources bogus......Bob just plain hates God, hates Christians, hates the Bible because he wants to escape his problems in death and God won't let him off the hook so he's throwing tempter tantrums at God and Christians.

Side: This is historical evidence
Cuaroc(8826) Clarified
1 point

The power of Christ compels you!

The power of Christ compels you!

Begone Demon!

Side: This is historical evidence
Amarel(4953) Disputed
1 point

Even if your bob enters historians that you refute, it is the remarkable LACK of record that makes his point. Where is the historical reference? None of the apostles are known to have historical writings. There is no independent source to substantiate anything in the bible.

Your faith based beliefs are fine so long as you remember they are faith based.

Side: There are only religious texts
2 points

While we have historical evidence in support of other figures mentioned in ideologies (Mohammad, Buddha, etc.) there is nothing there in support of Jesus, which is actually kind of surprising. One would assume that there was at least a person alive at the time who could have represented Jesus of the Bible, however as far as we know there wasn't. This is because there aren't any documents - and the Romans sure as hell loved to document things.

If Jesus had been real we would have had a birth certificate, travel papers, letters written about him, warrants for his arrest, etc. but we don't. It is highly unlikely that someone as (in)famous in Rome as described in the Bible as Jesus would have existed without some sort of documentation mentioning him.

Side: There are only religious texts
1 point

This is a fine example of the dumbing down of people through orchestrated disinformation. It's to the point now where people accept the wildest lies as truth, and then they repeat those things thinking they are intelligent when they have never studied the things they believe. Evolution and Atheism are that way, you have to start with a wall in your brain to block out contrary scientific data and common sense logic which contradicts your beliefs. Isn't it funny how near the end of the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, how it finishes stating many people are to be left in their wicked ways (Rev22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.), while the invitation to all for them to trust God and receive eternal life remains extended to them? Time is limited.

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Side: There are only religious texts
Cuaroc(8826) Clarified
1 point

The power of Christ compels you!

The power of Christ compels you!

Begone Demon!

Side: This is historical evidence
AlofRI(2733) Clarified
1 point

Every word of your first paragraph can be turned around to YOU!

"...the dumbing down of people through orchestrated disinformation." That is religion, in a nutshell.

"......you have to start with a wall in your brain to block out contrary scientific data and common sense logic which contradicts your beliefs." Just pick up a Bible, all your questions will be answered ...... by this book of myths with nowhere NEAR the, at least logically theoretical proof, of the studies of highly educated people with open minds! WHO, has a "wall"????

Side: This is historical evidence
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Ok, keep your wall up in your brain and go with whatever garbage you enjoy without conducting objective research. Be closed minded.

Side: This is historical evidence
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

The people who are pushing this "myth" stuff are intellectually dishonest and if you believe them you are being intellectually lazy, and there is no point arguing with a rock head.

Side: This is historical evidence