Political Party - which has the most sound logic and ideas?
Side Score: 102
Side Score: 117
Well, I tend to side with Republicans of course. :) I think the biggest qualm with Democrats is that they are so ready to abort babies but won't execute guilty murderers or wage war against an evil nation. Now, I've already discussed this before, so I'm not debating about that right now- get me another time. But Republicans tend to believe, at least the good old conservatives especially :), that abortion is wrong because it's innocent life being lost. The other cases are guilty life being lost. Just my opinion. You asked for the most sound logic and ideas, and this was a specific case in which Republicans have sounder logic. So stick that in your back pocket.
Not babies, clumps of cells. After a fetus becomes viable, it is illegal to abort, unless the fetus threatens the health of the mother.
"won't execute guilty murderers"
The death penalty is a bad idea for practical reasons:
1) It costs more to execute a prisoner than it does to keep them in prison for life. (source)
2) If new evidence turns up that exonerates the criminal, you can release him from prison, but you can't undo an execution.
"wage war against an evil nation"
The cost of the war in Iraq has been massive. Almost a trillion dollars (and counting), thousands of American lives (and counting), over one million dead Iraqis. Saddam Hussein was not a good guy but at some point you have to draw a line and say policing the world is just not worth the price.
"so I'm not debating about that right now- get me another time"
Oh come on, you can't drop inflammatory nonsense like this and expect it to go unopposed.
Oh it's on like Donkey Kong. :)
The only circumstance where abortion is logical and ethical is when the fetus threatens the mother's health with an ectopic pregnancy, a cancerous uterus, etc. I also feel some cases of rape could call for very early abortions. However, life begins at conception. At this point, the zygote, still a single cell, has the same number of chromosomes as a developed human being and carries on the same life processes found in every living organism.
Although it may be more costly to execute a prisoner, I see the death penalty as a way to rid society of those not worthy to belong in it. The death penalty should not be used lightly, of course, as if we lived in the Middle Ages, but should be used only on criminals guilty of first degree murder or crimes as evil as this. The way I see it, people guilty of first degree murder thought about their actions beforehand and planned to murder others prior to the incident. It is not a freak accident or a crime of passion- these people are inherently evil and have no respect to life. And with the advent of DNA technology, the number of people wrongfully accused of a crime has dwindled. There will never be a foolproof justice system, but we are closer than we ever have been.
I think if you compare Iraq now to how it was in 2001, the nation is much better off. They no longer live under an evil dictator, they finally have freedom and democratic elections (government of the people!), and the economy there is improving to stability. So we have done a lot of good there.
"Almost a trillion dollars" I agree that's a lot of money, but at least it wasn't spent in vain.
"thousands of American lives" This is nothing. I feel a sense of honor for each soldier who is serving now, who has served, and who has died for this country. I salute them and I think they are the greatest Americans, but compare this to any other major war in American history, and it is smaller than many individual battles! In wars of the past (not Vietnam), people didn't complain about numbers of dead soldiers, they praised these men (and now women) for their dedication and honor! And every war in our history has been greater, casualty-wise, than the Iraq war. The problem is that the media goes on air and says "This many people died this week in Iraq," which is constantly exaggerating the war. We are not dying that much over there.
"over one million dead Iraqis" This is truly sad, but think about how many of these people were on the other side of the war to begin with. Also, think about how many people would have lived in terror or died because of Saddam Hussein. I think one million dead Iraqis is better than an entire nation terrorized constantly by their leader or dying from radical Muslims.
The death penalty is a bad idea for practical reasons:
You forgot how it doesn't deter crime, its only legitimate purpose.
over one million dead Iraqis.
Americans never seem to care about that figure, only about their own dead. It's pretty disgusting, and very telling about our national character.
"Democrats is that they are so ready to abort babies but won't execute guilty murderers or wage war against an evil nation."
Democrats aren't all like "Go abortion, do it!!!"
We just want to have the choice. Please stop saying that democrats want people to have abortions. That's false.
Also, what war? Oh... the one were finally buckling down on, and finishing?
I never said Democrats want abortions to occur, but they sure don't want them to stop. It's not as if Democrats go out and urge women to abort their babies, but I don't think women should be given the choice of an abortion unless there are certain circumstances, like endangerment of the mother's health or rape, as long as the abortion is early on, like in the first month or two.
And yes, we're finishing the war. Are you guys all happy? Because I sure as hell feel a lot more safe! Oh wait... no I don't. Oh that's right, I feel leaving the region entirely might spark a revolt by any remaining radicals and the nation might revert to the way it was in 2001! That sounds like a lot of fun.
Republicans can be pretty ignorant, but they're more logical with their ideals.
The problem with Democrats is that they seem to have lost touch with Middle America. They're soft on crime and very soft on terrorism. The whole redistribution of wealth thing is really just a matter of opinion (at least, in my opinion it is). But they're focus on political correctness and humanism really just hurts their credibility. And on liberal issues that are more important they really pussy out on. Think of this, they are doing nothing to legalize gay marriage or at least make mandatory civil union ship in every state that gives the same rights as a married couple. And drugs are still banned on a federal scale. We have a completely Democratic government yet they have done nothing to cross over to these liberal civil rights.
The Republicans are also against gay marriage and drugs, so all it does is cancel out.
Middle America WANTS to be tough on crime and terrorism.
Obama was elected for "change"... which has hardly happened. This always happens, it's not about ideals, it's about the current events. Hoover had the Great Depression. LBJ had Vietnam and his great society. Bush has the Recession and the War.
p6667(53) Disputed 1 point "The problem with Democrats is that they seem to have lost touch with Middle America."
You're saying this AFTER Obama's election?
can you believe this guy? he honestly thinks obama won by population vote. if youv heard of the electoral collage you'll see that we don't do squat when it comes to voting. and 2 maybe the majority or near half did support obama, but thats because a quarter just did because whats that? hes black! and two after bush's poor show in office many wanted a change in gov. but the whole every one loves obama was blown out of proportion by the liberal media.
I'm not a tree hugging pacifist,
I just realize it's a ridiculous waste of a vote to not choose one side or the other,
and since democrats allow discention within their ranks, and republicans will even demonize General Powell, it seems incredibly logical to ally myself with democrats.
I believe the Republican party best follows the principles on which the United States was based. We uphold crucial liberties that our constitution gives us and more importantly we don't bow down to every minority or activist group that cries inequality. Our government has let far too many things slide because god forbid some minority should be offended. If the founding fathers saw all the things the liberals have allowed in the name of "equality" they would be rolling in their graves. I am a proud republican and Obama can pry my guns from my cold, dead hands.
Why fix what isn't broken? America isn't broken why should liberals pretend to fix it. No what liberals do is destroy and rebuild the greatest country in the world into something less because they feel we offend people with our greatness. Plus they are communists something we fought against all these years and are now becoming it? No logic there.
I'll take an observational approach for each aspect of either philosophy.
Economically speaking, capitalism has enabled us to generate mass amounts of wealth by allowing the basic human element of personal gain/greed to empower society through investment and mass production. Usually we work upon an exploitable resource until new market trends point the industry in another direction. So we get a steady rise of wealth over time and an occasional recession when resources run out and the market forces reset themselves to a new craze.
That would be ideal. However, in today's society this profit-based motivation has pushed jobs overseas in search of maximizing profit. It has caused overproduction in housing and crashed its value. It has spawned loan sharks and usury. It has allowed the oil enterprise to dominate our energy industry and suffocated any attempts at pushing for efficient, American-made, renewable, non-pollutant energy like solar, wind, hydrogen, etc.
Today's society is too structurally complex for blind market forces to repair themselves into working order. We can't expect our energy producers to group together and re-organize countless gas stations, power plants, and energy production facilities to accommodate this.
We need a group of experts to oversee and intervene on behalf of the greater good. Folks, I'm sorry, we need government oversight.
What we don't need oversight on is our lifestyles. I think we can agree that morals will change from person to person, it isn't fair to force one's views upon another especially when morals are an extension of preference and are therefore subjective.
Unless you're religious, in which case is unacceptable in the realm of a free democracy, especially when it makes people fervently adopt fallacy for fact like:
1. A group of cells equates to a living, conscious human, such that when this group of cells is disrupted, it equates to murdering a person.
2. Homosexuality is harmful in some way to other people and changing the legality of same-sex marriage will change the sexual ratio of the population which has remained relatively constant for millenia regardless.
What group would encompass people who infringe on personal matters that have nothing to do with them? What group would encompass those who discredit science (the most reliable source of all) and credit people they like dressed in suits, or credit an ancient religion? What group stubbornly insists on rigidity in the face of emergent and duly needed change?
The Republican Party. I will take no part in that.
(about 1.) This alone has caused centuries of social and emotional damage, has destroyed women's lives, and stunted the most promising branch of medical research in all history.
I'm sorry to say it, but modern day Republicans are a bunch of idiots.
Take just about any issue and the Democrats are on the smart side of the issue while the Republicans are on the dumb side.
Democrat position: Allow it
Republican position: Fuck you, faggot.
Democrat position: Only under very serious circumstances.
Republican position: Terrorists are evil! Who cares about the consequences?
Democrat position: Roe v. Wade -- illegal after viability.
Republican position: Never. The Bible is more important than the Constitution.
Democrat position: Teach it, obviously.
Republican position: It's a liberal conspiracy! Schools should be extensions of the church.
Democrat position: Tax the wealthy more, they can better afford it. Taxing the poor means they can't afford food and housing.
Republican position: Tax the poor just as much as the rich. It's only fair.
Democrat position: Deterrence is important, but rehabilitation is important too. Crime is a complicated issue.
Republican position: Stuff as many people into prison as possible.
I could go on, but you get idea. Republicans are stupid.
well, i guess i should first point out the logical fallacy of a hasty generalization...
Both parties are against it. Consider this, we are currently ruled by the Democratic Party yet no legislation has been passed to legalize gay marriage.
You made the Democrats seem like the moderates and the Republicans seem like the extremists. If you were to present that fairly, you would have said that the Democrats were pacifists who would never fight no matter what.
Once again, making the Democrats seem like moderates while the Republicans are the extremists. If you were to present this fairly, you would have said that the Democrats believe in abortion up until the chord is cut.
Republicans on the most part aren't concerned about this. There are extremists, of course, but most of them just say "teach it as a theory" and the small 1% of extremists are actually against teaching it at all.
Taxing at an equal rate isn't actually taxing them just as much. If you are referring to Flat tax, all that means is "the government takes 10 cents for every dollar you earn". Republicans mostly accept progressive taxing but believe that over 30% for the rich is too much. Especially when that money is just going to be used to pay for the poor.
Once again taking the extreme ideal. This time, though, creating a false extreme ideal out of nowhere. The Republicans wish to execute murderers and child rapists and many support the three strikes rule (as in, three strikes and you're dead). This would not result in overcrowding of prisons. Most Democrats do not believe in rehab for criminals, either, but are against the death penalty. They are more likely to overcrowd prisons. There are some Liberals who believe that criminals should be rehabilitated and not punished (because they do not understand the levels of antisocial [originally sociopath] behavior). In fact, Behavioral psychologists don't even believe that you could fix a criminal by talking about his past or rationalizing. Antisocials rationalize the idea that "I do it because it's good for me, and fuck everyone else". The only way to make them realize that they shouldn't do these things is to make them feel bad when they do it. The only other way is aversion therapy, and that's illegal nowadays.
Democrats: Support it. Gay people are cool.
Libertarians: We don't agree with their sexual position but its not the governments right to tell them they cant get married.
Republicans: Gay marriage is against our religion & marriage should be between a old man & a old woman.
Democrats: Make love not war. No fighting, fighting is not nice.
Libertarians: Defend our country & freedoms.
Republicans: Terrorists are evil!
Democrats: Abortion is okay.
Libertarians: Abortion is bad but I support the right.
Republicans: Abortion is murder & is immoral. If the couple are adult enough to have sex they should be adult enough to have a baby.
Democrats: We are a bunch of evolved fish
Libertarians: Teach only the known facts, not bullshit theories or religion.
Republicans: Schools should teach religion.
Democrats: Raise taxes to waste on prisoners & bailouts.
Steal from the hard working & give to free loaders.
Libertarians: Lower taxes on everyone. Less government.
Republicans: Tax the poor as much as the rich.
Democrats: Make prison a good place for the prisoners to live & waste as much tax money as possible on keeping the worst ones alive.
Libertarians: Stop wasting our tax money & let them kill themselves.
Republicans: Stuff as many people as possible & execute them for looking at porn & having sex before marriage.
I could go on but you get the idea. Liberals & Conservatives are stupid.
Your gross over-simplifications and factual inaccuracies are tremendous.
The official stance of the Democratic party is not that gay people are "cool." And the Libertarian party does not officially state they disagree with homosexuality. Neither party makes a mention of whether or not homosexuality is okay.
The Democratic party is not opposed to war, and says nothing like "make love not war." Maybe what you think of as the stereotypical liberal would say that, but it just doesn't hold up to the facts.
Again neither party says abortions are okay or good, but the Democratic party and Libertarian party support the right to abortions.
There is no policy of the Democratic party that says evolution is true, unfortunately. Again you don't know what you are talking about.
Your ignorance is rather in tune with your gusto. Once again you are incredibly ignorant.
Wow you have just unleashed some of the most biased, overly generalized liberal nonsense I have heard in a long time. You have WAY overstated your case here and exaggerated the "facts" to the extreme. It's people like you who are bending the constitution out of shape. Not us.
They both have their own flaws.
I'm judging this when it comes to issues about equality, civil rights and foreign policy, and I have to tell you, the Democrats have come forward with far better ideas so far.
Take abortion. The Republicans want it illegal, thus forcing all pregnant women to have babies they don't want. The Democrats say "hey, when you are pregnant yourself, then you make a decision for yourself".
Take gay marriage. The Republicans recognize that it is a right but have it for nothing to take that right away. The Democrats say "hey, why are you so bothered anyway, no one is forcing you to marry a guy! they want to get married not sell drugs and guns FFS!"
Take terrorism. The Republicans go and bomb anything and everything that moves regardless of evidence. The Democrats say "hey, why not get friends with their neighbors and their enemies, and altogether tie the noose on them, that way we don't spend billions and no one hates us".
Overall the Republicans have many times stepped too far because they think they have the moral authority.
My initial reaction is NEITHER, but for the sake of the debate I will say Democrats since they haven't sold out to the religious extreme of their party. If the Republicans were more libertarian then maybe, but they mean what they say less than the Dems.
Lower taxes?..Only for the rich.Makes no sense to be R if you're not rich
Smaller government?... Yah right. Two Words: Terry Shaivo.
The constitution?... are you kidding me??
Family Values?..... David Vitter, Larry Craig, etc..Power breeds hypocrisy.
I could go on about the dems too, but since I chose sides for this debate I won't. The puppet show of politics is what it is, but like I said earlier, at least the dems haven't been taken over by religious pandering in a country that has a tradition of separation of church and state.
1. both are liars, nuff said. I will rebut some of your stereotypes on Republicans mainly because they're not fair... not because i agree with them.
2. The rich are the ones with the highest taxes. Republicans, first of all, believe in General tax cuts, so that does include the poor and middle class. Second of all, they would prefer flat tax which give an equal tax rate. So all classes are treated equally through taxes.
3. Terry Shaivo is a name. Also, in total they are for smaller government. You can't bring in one event and say "that nullifies any idea of them being small government". They believe in smaller government because they support State's Rights and less spending. Social issues sometimes juxtapose their general ideas, but in general they have stayed true to that. In fact, Terry Shaivo was handled by the state.
4. The only reason why SOME of them can be hypocrites is because they set standards in the first place. The mass majority stay true to family values and are deeply saddened when someone can't keep them. Democrats do not set standards, and therefore can never worry about being called hypocrites. "he cheated on his wife and had sex with a 13 year old boy", "w/e, he's a Democrat, they can do w/e they want".
5. Democrats gave in to not legalizing gay marriage and they highly support the NAACP, an extremely Christian organization that is more Radically religious than the Right Wing. Republicans just tend to say "God Bless America" more often and are not afraid to mention that they're Christian.
2. While that is what they say, Republicans in the last 30 years record of taxation shows a general bias toward the rich. All one has to do is look at the tax cuts of both Bushes to see this.
3. The federal government did interfere though. Republicans only want smaller government when they aren't in power. Government intervening in social issues is big government, and historically the whole state's rights thing really is a moot point after the civil war. It's a dead horse. The 10th amendment can and should be used successfully to defend many things from the powers of the federal government, but we should concentrate more on the "or to the people." part of it. The federal government has had the precedent of superseceding the states for 150 years now.
4. This entire paragraph supposes that democrats have no standard for moral conduct, which is bullshit even from my perspective. The whole family values thing is a con. It is used to con people into voting on social issues rather than on economic issues that will actually affect them. No one can "do whatever they want". Your bias is showing again. 99% of congress is christian. That is a fact. To me that means nothing about their morality, but you seem to think the ones who wear it on their sleeve are more likely to follow it rather than to use it to manipulate voters which is what they actually do.
5. No politician supports something until it's safe. The NAACP is a secular organization with ties to the religious community. No their not afraid to mention they are christian, or to try and pass laws that are based on said religion. Or to try and say this country is or was founded as a christian nation. Or to deny gay people rights based on religions ridiculous claim to marriage, which was originally a property arrangement by the way. Or blah, blah, blah. We live in a secular country and you should be glad of it. Being christian says nothing about your morality, men of power have always used religion as a tool to sway the masses, whether trying to destroy it and take its place or just use it to manipulate, it always works because people have this foolish tendancy to think religion equals moral. It does not.
Well this is a silly debate. This is really a question that someone should ask themselves introspectively.
But I am a Democrat, and feel that right now the Democratic party is more cohesive and unified than the Republican party. I also agree more with the Democratic ideals.