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Why doesn't the Christian God help everyone?
It's undeniable he doesn't help everyone, world peace doesn't exist. Yet he claims to be all powerful (or his fanboys claim it) so what is the deal? Is he not all powerful, or does he just not care?
He has unlimited power, able to do anything, so they say, yet he won't stop rapists? Something about that doesn't seem right. Not omnipotent or not as loving as the tabloids say.
You sir are a prick, is it only the fear of an STD that would stop your enjoyment of being raped by another man? Is all your homophobic rhetoric on other debates just a front to hide your true nature?
Bacteria reproduces asexually, meaning no intercourse or rape, yet that still wouldn't work as a fair example since humans don't have the capability to prevent every bacteria everywhere from reproducing.
Even still, if I were to work with your argument, it is as you say. God has the power to kill all stds, why doesn't he? Maybe it is as my side says, he can not, or does not want to.
If God has already forbid rape, the rapist already knows his prayers don't to deserve to be answered, and as most Christian's will say, the rapist is acting on his own, God did not make him do that. There for in this scenario, since God already sees all and knows all, he knows this woman is about to be raped, he sees it happening, he has the power to stop it, and he stands by.
So you want people to argue that God can make a two mutually exclusive things happen? And I'm sure you want this done with our humanly understood laws of physics.
The questions is; if you believe in/pray to God can you accept that maybe your pray doesn't deserve to be answered in the way you want? God does answer prays, but he doesn't just give you what you want, he gives you what you need.
I was only saying the way the questions sounds it was better placed as an argument for this side. Though to the topic of God giving you what you need, what about the millions who don't get what they need?
(Take into consideration that I'm not going to argue for every individual person; but also for humanity as a whole. So my argument may include 'whatever the individual prayed for; for humanity that individual needed to die.)
The millions that are starving in Africa. The millions of Africans who were slaves. The millions of Jewish people who were captured and tortured by Hitler and his men.
Wait, how do you suggest he stop the rapist? Run down with 200 million angels to haul him away? Force him to think otherwise? Didn't the rapist learn it is wrong to rape?
In all his mysterious power he can't think of another more subtle way of handling things? I mean honestly, if he can't then by all means I'm sure anyone who was raped wouldn't mind him breaking the fourth wall with an army of Angels. He has the power to, correct? Maybe the rapist that got caught might not learn, but the rest would definitely learn from that example. God's watching, and his forces are stronger than you'll ever be. That sounds like a way better anti-rape policy than, do it of your own volition, but burn in hell forever.
God's watching, and his forces are stronger than you'll ever be. That sounds like a way better anti-rape policy than, do it of your own volition, but burn in hell forever.
That doesn't sound like it solves the issue. The minute He turns his back everybody is going to start raping again. That is probably not a problem for you because if someone is a rapist their hearts and smiles with you, a public philanthropist and caretaker of little of little girls, everything is fine and dandy but it is a problem to God because he is just there, staring at a rapist, fooling all of you and doing empty gestures for good just because He is watching him?
That sounds like a way better anti-rape policy than, do it of your own volition, but burn in hell forever.
You don't really know why people end up in hell huh?
In Hinduism, they believe their God(s) (or lack thereof) wants them divide their societies within different caste systems. Where is the equality there?
In Buddhism, some believe in a God (Buddha, or Siddhartha) and why don't they help everyone reach "enlightenment"?
In Rastafarian beliefs, why doesn't their God help everyone smoke marijuana?
I understand you're point out Christianity in this case, since create debate was formed within America, however, the question you're asking is extremely difficult to ask AND answer.
I believe another great question is to ask "Why doesn't any and all God(s) help everyone, all the time?"
Who knows? First of all...
Second, I would answer as follows:
The Christian God set forth a "perfect" earth and it's occupants, also a species that was given "free-will" (regardless if free-will is an "illusion, or not") and the said human species somehow broke the "code" (whatever the fuck that means), thus allowing mankind to decide and to choose, whether it (humans) wants to be "good" or "evil", so to speak.
In short, perhaps God set forth a happening, and something changed from what God wanted. And perhaps God ultimately created something (HUMANS) that even itself (GOD) could not control completely (our free-will granted by God), creating this domino effect of the basis of this debate "Why Doesn't the Christian God help everyone?"
I believe God has the ability to do whatever it wants, including helping certain situations, circumstances, and people, yet most likely chooses not to via the particular decisions made by mankind.
That is, had everything in this life been perfect since the get go (without the "problem" that happened), there would be no rape, murder, pain, suffering, or "evil", and that perhaps everything would have been perfect, without knowledge of such things.
Even though we are animals, I do not believe other animals are anything close to what we are, how we perceive this life as "good or evil". Which is why you're asking this question in the first place. No, I do not believe other animals come close to asking questions like "Why doesn't God help other Lions, or Bears, oh my!"
Overall, the question is extremely tough to answer.
In Hinduism, they believe their God(s) (or lack thereof) wants them divide their societies within different caste systems. Where is the equality there?
I don't know much about Hinduism, but separating the societies in terms of caste might be used to maintain order.
In Buddhism, some believe in a God (Buddha, or Siddhartha) and why don't they help everyone reach "enlightenment"?
He does, by teaching you to the means of reaching enlightenment. Help enough.
In Rastafarian beliefs, why doesn't their God help everyone smoke marijuana?
Rastafarians believe the legalizing of marijuana is the work of "Babylon". So they don't want that to happen.
They can't. In their job descriptions we know their limits, yet I don't see how this constitutes as an argument against why the Christian God doesn't help everyone.
He claims to be all powerful.
allowing mankind to decide and to choose, whether it (humans) wants to be "good" or "evil", so to speak.
Still not an excuse. Back when records weren't kept as tightly he would help often enough. I'm sure you heard the story about all the first born sons in Egypt being killed, if there was no lamb's blood upon their door. He helped prevent evil from winning then, why not do it some more?
I believe God has the ability to do whatever it wants, including helping certain situations, circumstances, and people, yet most likely chooses not to via the particular decisions made by mankind.
So you believe he can, he just does not want to? That's the side I'm supporting.
I am a Christian that sometimes understands the concept behind what he does. Sometimes I think he is just a passive aggressive little prick, but what is love if you can't tell him that yourself without thinking he is gonna send you to hell?
As I am an atheist, I will try and answer this in a neutral perspective; God doesn't help everyone because he's an asshole. Let's go back to the scriptures and point out some instances in which God did not bother to help at all:
Genesis, 17:14 "And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."
A boy who is not circumcised should be cut off from his community according to God. A rather fair punishment for a child who did not do anything wrong. Despite the fact that it was the child's parents' faults for this "sin", the child is apparently the one to be punished by God because he simply doesn't care about the child.
Genesis 19:26 "But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."
In an angry rage, God murdered everyone and everything in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah with the exception of Lot and his family. Despite how everything they've ever known, owned and met is now being burned alive, God says not to look back. His wife does look back, and she is instantly killed. Now, would a helpful God really impose this on a family? He spared the family, but not anything else, and then murdered Lot's wife over such a small deed? I do not think God helped Lot in this case, or his children for that matter, or everyone else that was just burned alive. He may have spared their lives, but as he has just destroyed everything they've owned and loved, and now the childrens' own mother, I am not willing to believe he helped them very much.
Leviticus 19:31 "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."
God commanding his people not to be around wizards and people with familiar spirits, showing just one of many groups of people he refuses to help.
Numbers 16:32 "And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods."
For having a different view and not wanting to follow Moses, Korah, his men and their families, as well as everything they own are swallowed up by the Earth. Very helpful to Korah, isn't God? In other words, "do not disobey your government's every orders".
Numbers 25:16-17 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Vex the Midianites, and smite them"
Yet another group of people God refuses to help.
Joshua 11:21 "And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities."
Joshua, with God's permission, goes on a killing spree with his men and destroys four different groups of people, all of which were not spared because God did not favor them. They may have sinned, however I doubt that every single person, including women and children, were needful of a horrific and painful death at the hands of a "loving God".
As you can see from the above scriptures, God has been excluding people from his love and assistance from the times of the book itself. I may have only been using Old Testament scriptures, however as they are from the same story, it shouldn't matter. This is just to prove that God doesn't help everyone and will never, and only helps those he favors. Through all the bloodshed and killings, we can see God's true unhelpful intentions towards others.
The more dark things you see, the more appreciation to get for even the little positive things in life. I have a friend to once admitted to being sexually abused as a child. Now she is in a healthy relationship and is soon to be married. Recovering from such abuse is difficult, but she has proven it is possible.
Now don't get me wrong, i am in no way encouraging horrible acts like that. We should actively try to stop such crimes. It is that drive to make our environment and ourselves better that (in my opinion) gives life meaning.
If God doesn't stop child rape and murder why should we, your friend might not be getting married if she hadn't been raped by your logic.
The Christian God is an intelligent entity, he sees all at least while it's happening, some say even before things happen. He watches children get raped every single day and is capable of saving each and every one of them.
It is obvious by his actions that he can't save them, or doesn't want to.
We are shaped by those events in our lives. I do not know if my friend would be getting married or not had she not had that awful experience, but the fact is it happened and now she has a greater appreciation for how healthy relationships. I believe life is a test where we encounter events, good and bad, and how we choose to respond define us and helps us become who we are. This life is just a stepping stone for the next so we can appreciate the paradise it is.
Nothing you said is an argument that God does help everybody, all you have done is give terrible reason why he doesn't.
There is no emotional growth to be had in the dead body of a viciously raped child. That child will never have a greater appreciation for healthy relationships because the Christian god would rather watch than help.
The murder victim may not be the one who needs the growth, it could be meant for a friend or relative, or even just a passerby who was shocked and offended by what they saw.
While horribly immoral, that is a logical position to have. You should change your noted position to God doesn't help everyone, as you have just admitted.
Maybe the victim has completed their purpose in life and is ready to move on to paradise. That is speculating, i know, but whenever we are talking about religious beliefs in involves some level of speculation.
The gateway to paradise was every moment of the child's life that led up to their death. All of it, including the unpleasant end, defines them. It just makes paradise more rewarding.
Just imagine, all you are doing is trying to complete a child's gateway to paradise, yet the world hates you. Child molesting is truly a thankless job.
To any NSA agents privileged with the task of reading all my brilliant arguments: I do not support the rape and murder of children, I'm just being incredibly sarcastic. I hate all the same people you hate and agree with you on everything, political or otherwise. Please don't send me to jail like Justin Carter.
The main reason why the Christian God doesn't help everyone is because people don't want Him in their life and they choose not to believe in Him. People don't need Him and they just worry about themselves so that is whey they say that Christianity is a "fairy tale".
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. - Romans 8:28
God isn't responsible for those people who starve. Those people's area around them are poor because they caused themselves to be poor because of what the people who lived in that area did to cause it become poor. It was man who caused them to be poor.
Sooooo..... he doesn't help people that are receiving help from others or he doesn't help people who's problems were created by other people? (except for the times he does help them by performing miracles)
Just say 'God works in mysterious ways' and walk away.
Once Adam and Eve sinned God gave them the earth to live and it was up to everyone after that to create good things or bad things. God didn't interfere until man became to violent and evil that is why flooded the earth. God could make you a puppet making you obey everything and to make sure you don't stray from the faith but he let us choose to seek Him or to turn from Him.
God is all knowing. Therefore he knew they would 'sin'. Because he is all knowing, he could have prevented this. Same applies to the flood. And puppets we are~ prove you have free will and your actions aren't predestined. I think they are, and Newton has my back on this one :)
If you calculate the velocity, direction of said velocity and position of every particle in the universe you could accurately predict the future. If God is all powerful and all knowing and made a finite universe, he decided everything that would happen- all evil is his will. It is impossible to make an infinite universe (well, duh).
Well, since earthly life is a test for eternal life, no it does not matter. The trade off far surpasses the trial and in marketing, humans are said to be satisfied if the reward exceeds the work put in/expectation. Those people were cheated in life because the food output of the world exceeds the population and are now being comforted because of an unfair world.
your argument justifies any suffering!
In reference to anything, suffering is justified if the reward equates what is worked for or is even greater. Are you saying that everything must be spoon fed? Must nothing be worked for?
Then the Christian god does not care about anyone on earth, only the select few he deems worthy to get into heaven. How do you know they even went to heaven?
Because the Bible says they will be comforted there. Since that is where we get his personality traits from, I am more inclined to believe the Bible. Anywho, I never said or even implied he does not care. He cared enough to give his son's life just so we can recieve the gift of heaven and he did it indiscriminately, for everybody.
Why do you have food? Why do you have water? Why do you have Internet? Why does anyone have life? Why does anyone have anything? If God is the giver and taker of life and all that is involved with it, as according to the Bible, then He helps everyone. It is called common grace.
And why does food grow? Why is water available? Why have we discovered electricity? Why did those two people come together? Why did anyone do anything? You are assuming that people are capable to even be able to work.
They are there. They did. Obviously an inbuilt desire to survive would make one more likely to survive- natural selection.
The wheel weaves as the wheel wills, we are but threads in the pattern.
Don't ask.
To add, instead of asking me, why not google comet formation and electricity yourself. I know very little about comets, but more on electricity. "God made it" is a boring dead end answer.
I don't share your viewpoint. Just because it's about your god doesn't make your opinion right. If you can't understand basic logic, why are you even on this site? After all, i'm setting up on the side that's against your view and saying it could just as well be any other god, or none of them. The burden of proof lies with you, however.
You've demonstrated blind faith, yes. However you ignore anything that doesn't agree with you.
You won't even consider it seriously. Also, if you have established evidence, I have yet to see it. The Bible does not count as it is biased towards your side.
Perhaps if you were more open to listening to what I had to say, I would tell you. But I can see I'm wasting my time with such a sub-par individual as yourself.
I have a feeling that listening to what you say is the same thing as agreeing withyou. If I was unwilling to listen I wouldn't ask. And sub-par? A little unwarranted don't you think?
Not unwarranted at all. Also you called me 'Einstein' which I assume, had you spoken it, would have been derisive. If you are already insulting me in your heart, then you will not listen to reason.
And people tend to ask questions just so they can prove themselves correct. Besides, what I said was pretty damn obvious. I don't even know why this is an issue for you.
It was not derisive, it was an initial attempt to point out a fallacy in your argument, that Christianity has the same amount of proof than the flying spaghetti monster which is silly but apparently your snide subtle remark (which I assume is a disrespect to Christianity) went unrivalled because I am too stupid to understand. You never even understood the reasoning behind my response
You failed to clarify. As for having the 'same amount of proof' that wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that despite their 'evidence' they cannot conclusively prove that it is the god that they say it is. I could just as easily say it was something else.
I could easily say that Big Bang Theory (assuming you believe in it, correct me if I am wrong) can be explained away by attacking the points such as redshift and the doppler effect and cannot be conclusively proven. It is meaningless however without any argument.
I can't say I believe in the Big Bang Theory, so I'd have to say you're wrong on that assumption. As for what I do believe in, that bit's under construction due to the loss of faith that intertwined itself into my very identity for the past 20 or so years. Honestly, I'm really just living in the moment for now.
Oh you complete imbecile sir! Based on this logic, God is not even half aware of the world he created! And what of the people who don't have food, water, internet ( what the fuck does having internet have to do with anything, they didn't have internet at the time of God you know), and the hundreds of thousands of people dying because of poverty, war, disease e.t.c. Does he simply not know of all these things? Or is he just the most ignorant being the world has ever seen?
Based on this logic, God is not even half aware of the world he created!
That does not follow and is, therefore, a non sequitur. If God is real, then He knows everything and is completely aware of everything that He created.
And what of the people who don't have food, water, internet ( what the fuck does having internet have to do with anything, they didn't have internet at the time of God you know), and the hundreds of thousands of people dying because of poverty, war, disease e.t.c. Does he simply not know of all these things? Or is he just the most ignorant being the world has ever seen?
They have life. They have had food and they have had water. They have been helped by God. Whether God helps one enormously, though, is irrelevant to the discussion.
Yet for no reason at all they don't anymore, so he stops helping them?
Whether God helps one enormously, though, is irrelevant to the discussion.
It's very relevant. You only gave God credit for the good things that happened in their life. Just because they ate once means God fed them? Why did God then choose to stop? Maybe it's as the other position says, he can no longer feed them, or he does not want to.
The point is that God brings both rain and sunshine to both the righteous and the wicked.
It's very relevant. You only gave God credit for the good things that happened in their life. Just because they ate once means God fed them? Why did God then choose to stop? Maybe it's as the other position says, he can no longer feed them, or he does not want to.
Does God owe anyone anything? Does God owe anyone help?
It doesn't seem like you're disagreeing with me. Has he stopped feeding them? Whether he owes them or not, he has stopped, no? Why doesn't he keep feeding them? Is it because he does not want to, or can not?
It is because He wills for them to either be feed or not to be feed. However, to digress back to the topic of the debate: God does help people; it just isn't in the way people always want it to be.
Therefore the answer is he does not want to. He does not help people because he does not want them to be helped, he wants them to suffer so that they become Christians. You're posting on the wrong side.
You have said in the last comment he doesn't. You tried to justify how what he does can be seen as help, but it's unfortunate that if the help, doesn't actually help, it's not helpful, so it really shouldn't (and wouldn't by most people) be called help.
I never said that God does not help everyone; I clearly said that He does. I told you that He brings rain and sunshine on both the good and the wicked. I told you that without Him, then no one would live at all. I told you that He helps in ways that people do not want to acknowledge.
The rain and sunshine does not help a starving person. Wise words don't help a starving person. Tell me this, are you one of those people that think, if you like a Facebook photo that says every like will feed the homeless, that it actually helps them?
if, by help, you mean God helping to stop all suffering, then God does help. He makes us undergo suffering, so we become more fore-bearing for the real problems. He doesn't put us through tests. He knows how we'll handle it, and He knows that what is to come. So He simply prepares us so that we face our problems with lesser anxiety.
at least for those that are starving, they are still living, GOD still protects them. most people are starving because they do not know how to pray. it may be that their parents are the cause of their problem or even themselves. the thing is there is a reason for everything and GOD knows why everything is happening. GOD has done something wonderful in the life of everybody but it takes the grateful and reasonable ones to realize it. it is usually the ungrateful people that says GOD doesn't do anything whereby they are living, have legs to walk, hands to type and do things etc. but GOD still overlook what they say and still provides and even favor them. people should stop saying rubbish and thank GOD for themselves when things are good and bad. our fingers are not equal so .
He does BUT remember the True "Christian" God is not an omniscient, all powerful flexing controlling power in the heavens...think about it, what would be the purpose of God if he literally showed his power, constantly changed outcomes in His favor and displayed His power by altering human experiences and interactions on a regular basis. He is a God who already is all powerful, but he is completely humble and desires meekness and relationship. We are all born as divine oprhans, without our Father in heaven or his love as we are separated. God's character is one that wants intimacy and relationship, not moral goodness and strict adhering to good works. What does God desire? Your heart. He wants you to be passionate about Him, because he is passionate about us. However, there are numerous cases where God intervenes in people and childrens lives, taking them out of terrible circumstances and providing justice. Can't tell you how many testimonies there are of teens in abusive and horrible homes who were going to commit suicide or hurt themselves, yet, by some random chance end up at church and are singularly called out by someone there who the Lord placed on their hearts, who randomly walk up them and describe their circumstances to the child, and reach out a hand of help and justice. Remember God loves all, but this isnt a world that He controls or manipulates, he provided the way to freedom and healing, but it is our journey to find Him and draw close to Him in relationship and surrender.
It is as you said, random chance. That's just all it is, random. It doesn't give an answer to why God helped that specific family though their hardship, while others going through the same trouble at a different time, didn't get helped. When people die, and some people live, and those two situations are the same, it's either God helping one and not the other or no God at all. Either way, in the cases where the people were not helped, that's proof that God does not help everyone. The only real question is why? Is it because he can't either because he's not real or not all that powerful, or is it because he doesn't want to, because maybe he's not as loving as his fans make him out to be.
