You, know? I'm already getting used to the idea of not taking plastic bags home when I go shopping. The arguments about the ban are effective because everybody knows they're no good to the environment, because the inconvinience of them is all over. You just need to observe the streets, but again I insist on asking what about the other kinds of plastic, I mean, rice, beans, cookies package plastic. Aren't they as harmful to the environment as plastic bags? And if they are too create biodegradable ones, why didn' t they just start doing it with the bags to replace the old ones instead of banning them? Are there any plausible arguments for this lack of atittude besides money?

I know it takes a million years to a plastic bag to decompose in nature, but I don't think it's the worst evironmental issue. I believe it is a way supermarket owners found to save some money and worse: to deceive us, once they didn't cut down the price of the products (everybody knows the bags we used to receive are included in the final price we pay for the products.)

On the other hand with the end of plastic bags people will demand a large number of reusable bags because is more economic than the biodegradable bags, so this can produce some financial instability, Miguel Bahiensetaht is the representative of brasilian plastics industry, he say’s “Quanto à retornável, além dos estudos dizerem que elas impactam mais no meio ambiente que as comuns, estamos vendo uma enxurrada de sacolas retornáveis fabricadas na China e no Vietnã, a preços lá embaixo, mesmo sendo importadas. Isso deverá prejudicar a indústria nacional, sobretudo o mercado de trabalho”. According to Bahiense, “existem no Brasil 30 mil empregos diretos na indústria de sacolas plásticas que estão ameaçados”.

The link of the article used:http://noticias.r7.com/economia/noticias/com-fim-da-sacola-plastica-descartavel-consumo-de-saco-retornavel-deve-explodir-20120125.html?question=0

You've got a point there in that article. If each consumer were responsible for recycling the bags they were given, it would be a solution to the problem. One thing most families used to do was to use the bags to store garbage. At home we didn't buy plastic bags for garbage for years. The reality is that it's a pity that recycling is not a regular practice in our country and we do see them hanging on trees and winding in the strets.

Plastic Bags can be seen as villains, however if you

check out some researches, the paper bags are not that

eco-friendly at all. Moreover, its production polutes

the air and the water (causing acid rain). Check this

graphic: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/10/03/GR2007100301385.html?referrer=emaillink

In India, plastic bags were forbidden.Some countries

such as South Affrica and USA defend that the use of

plastic bag should be ruled as well as their

destination afterwards.

In Brazil we should bare in mind the destination of

these plastic bags. Recycle programs are not developed

in our country, therefore governments are banning the

plastic bags. Trying to solve a problem which is not

only of the plastic bags, but initiatives that should

be part of their responsabilities. "Only 1 percent of

plastic bags are recycled worldwide — about 2 percent

in the U.S. — and the rest, when discarded, can persist

for centuries. They can spend eternity in landfills,

but that’s not always the case. “They’re so aerodynamic

that even when they’re properly disposed of in a trash

can they can still blow away and become litter,” says

Mark Murray, executive director of Californians Against

Waste. It’s as litter that plastic bags have the most

baleful effect. And we’re not talking about your

everyday eyesore" (source:

http://www.salon.com/2007/08/10/plastic_bags/))

Make sure you check these websites:

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1268.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/ 2003/09/0902_030902_plasticbags_2.html

Mariana Lettieri Ferreira NUSP 7612579

Gabriela Chiarelli Milito NUSP 7611522

I agree that plastic bags harm the environment. But I believe it's more a problem of controling the uses and how people get rid of plastic bags, so governments should develop an effective policy of recycling plastics in order to protect and save our planet. Of course that now we have to buy that "new" bags on supermarkets or pay taxes to get plastic bags. And this is, for sure, an excuse for governments to take our money. It's not necessary to ban plastic bags, but use them wisely, so they don't end up in rivers, trees or animals stomachs, killing them.

I agree. There's a financial motivation behind banning plastic bags, but I believe environment could benefit from it. But it's only a small step. I believe it'll take a time for people to adjust to it. I'm already used to it, but I know people who buy another bag everytime they go to the market. Besides that, I believe it's necessary to educate people about the environment - to motivate them to recycle. For me, it's the main step.

I believe that the question now is: How we gonna solve the problem? Because the prohibition is the tip of the iceberg. In fact, it seems to contain a measure of damage unthinking, unplanned. The markets were prohibited from distributing plastic bags, but no way forward was shown. The adjustment period has been confusing and could be avoided with the ascription of a unified measure. Ask consumers to buy reusable bags is absurd, since there is no price adjustment in the products. The BBC Brazil article illustrates the issue of future paths, since we can observe a wide variety of options for comparing bags. All has its positives and negatives. It is then observed that the reusable bags are not fully "environmental". Can cause even more damage than plastic bags, if we consider the production cost and lifetime. Ireland found a different way of dealing with the situation: a set fee for the bags (decreasing the amount per buyer) and at the same time, research new ways of recycling. Could we do something similar?

Font:http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/noticias/2012/04/120403_sacolas_plastico_lk.shtml

It is a positive initiative for São Paulo, one of the biggest cities of the world, ban the distribution of plastic bags from the supermarkets. Imagine the pollution its effects and troubles, as the floods, caused by these bags being reduced; furthermore, there will be less plastic bags to recycle, a process which takes a long time to be done. Although it is an opportunity for the supermarket owners to get extra money from the costumers, it remains a good alternative to change our habits attacking less the environment. It may even not be the most effective step, but it is necessary to start with something.

This is fresh for us, paulistanos, but I think it’s a question of time to get used to do the shopping without the plastic bags. Before this law exist, I was already accustomed to buy my stuff on the supermarket, carrying them in my book bag, depending oh the product.

Disregard this post, please. Login wrong. I will make the login with my personal user.

In theory, it's a nice initiative from the government. The biodegradable one takes about six months, while the usual takes a hundred years.

But this action isn't being accepted for everyone. One of the problems is that the biodegradable one is sold for R$ 0,19. The real matter is that it is more about the money than about the worry to environment.

But if this ideia really works, it should be used in everywhere. After all, there is no sense you don't use the plastic bag on markets, but you use it when you go to the mall, drugstores or rental stores.

Up to know is clear that the major problem on Plastic Bags is educational, because people need to reflect about the whole problem; when we talk about an educational problem is not only about knowing the effects of throwing bags at the streets and recycling them, but also the necessary effort to get used to new ways of carrying groceries; an effort to take care of Nature.

On the material of R7, someone said that plastic bags are important because they are used for the garbage: “- Quando a sacola sair de circulação, o consumidor vai ter que comprar duas embalagens: uma para o transporte das compras e o saco de lixo, que é feito do mesmo material da sacolinha e tem a mesma destinação, ou seja, o aterro sanitário.” However, we still have the plastics bags we use to carry fruits and vegetables, they are not banned at markets and can be used for carrying the garbage.

But that's the point Thais, plastic bags of vegetables and other stuff are not plastic?! They don't go to the environment as well?

This is the top of the iceberg, government and supermarkets are all together on that. All they want is the money. Being ecofriendly is nowadays fashion! If you really want to be ecofriendly it's important to invest all this money in reclying programs. But it takes time, it's not possible to do in 3, 4 years. Plastic bags being banned it's easier, they choose one day and that's it.

Mariana Lettieri Ferreira - NUSP 7612579

I agree with you Mariana. It's very easy to ban something. You decide to do it and that's it. For me, at least, this question is still with no solution, because costumers now have to buy that reusable bags and THE GARBAGE BAGS. The first ones is not so ecologically correct and we don't even have to talk about the garbage bags. Both of them are made of plastic and have the same destiny. So the solution would be recycling programs as you said, and that, beyond time, costs money, and the government don't wanna spend time and money drawing this up. It's actually, a question of good will.

I agree with Narayan. It's very easy indeed to ban the use of plastic bags, but the main question is what will replace them.

Well, we have seen here that the so-called "recycled bags" are not that ecofriendly.

And we must face that our world (as well as supermarkets) works based on MONEY. So, we have to ask ourselves: WHO is interested in this new "green age" and how does that affect our life style?

I would like people really were worried about environmental problems. Nevertheless, it seems that most of them are more concerned about where they will throw the rubbish away now, without plastic bags, which used to be the rubbish dump. Theses bags are certainly harmful to the environment but what it takes is a government effective policy to recycle plastics, as Narayan1M said. Moreover, I guess the government should invest more in eco-friendly materials for use.

Caique1M

Of course (and it is not the first time) the government use a idea to catch more money.They see this opportunity (be ecofriendly) to take our money,but wait..this happens all the time.We paid two times for education (one on taxes ) and another in a private school.We paid two times for transport,one on taxes and another on the bus or metro by "bilhete único". We paid two times to travel in good roads,one on taxes and other on toll.And now,with the plastic bags taxes we discovered this practice?We have been stolen a many years,and now we want to protest? Don't reject this idea using the stolen of money,cause this happens in all the sectors.If we want to stop this stealing,protest not just for the plastic bags,but all the other things that we pay two times.

One thing was said before,about the government should give a time to people adjust about this change,or try to teach people to use less plastic bags ,I think that this is available to children ,cause we are tired to hear on journals and documentaries about the animals that are killed by this plastic bags.I stopped to use my plastic bags since 2009.Now we are trying to see other ways to save the nature,but before this affect your daily few people thought in stop (on their own) to use plastic bags or find another ecological way.

Of course that it's necessary more than avoid plastic bags to make some great difference,but this it's a important step (if not would not have been adopted in countries like London and China) but like some people said ,encouraging recycling is very important too.

Gabriela Chiarelli Milito NUSP-7611522

About the plastic bags, today's SPTV had shown a research about the plastic bags. They're all harmfull to the evironment. There's no solution! No ecofriendly alternative. We should insist on the recycling programs.

http://g1.globo.com/sao-paulo/noticia/2012/05/sacolas-distribuidas-em-sp-nao-sao-biodegradaveis-aponta-teste.html

Thet're even trying to "revive" the Garbage tax that we used to pay some years ago. Again, plastic bags are the tip of the iceberg, but it's something that converges into one solution: information and recycling.

Mariana Lettieri Ferreira - NUSP 7612579

I agree that we have to insist on recycling programs but also we have remember this article posted some days ago this show that paper and plastic are problematic we need to invest in reusable bags.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/10/03/GR2007100301385.html?referrer=emaillink

Is there a financial purpose behind this decision? Yes, but it could bring to people awareness about the environment as well, but they don't seem to be worried about the impact of the plastic bags out there, but what to do without them. And, yes, there is cookies' plastic packages and etc, but I don't see it as a reason to allow the plastic bags.

We've been debating if plastic bags are good or bad, however, we must discuss what can be done for this idea to be worthwile such as other countries that succeed in the plastic bag banning.

Here we have some food for tought:

"Bangladesh was the first country to ban plastic bags in 2002 amid worries that they were blocking drains during the monsoon.

Other countries have since moved to ban, discourage or promote the reuse of plastic bags, hundreds of billions of which are handed out free each year.

Denmark and Ireland have both experimented with taxing plastic bags. Dublin said the tax, imposed in 2002, had reduced usage by more than 95 per cent."

Source: http://www.theage.com.au/world/in-india-plastic-bag-use-is-a-capital-offence-20090117-7jl4.html

More information about this topic:

http://exame.abril.com.br/economia/meio-ambiente-e-energia/sustentabilidade/noticias/12-lugares-no-mundo-que-baniram-ou-taxaram-o-uso-de-sacola-plastica

Gabriela Chiarelli Milito NUSP 7611522

Mariana Lettieri Ferreira NUSP 7612579

Marina Gialluca Domene NUSP 7611773

Caique is right, the government should invest more in eco-friendly materials.

And the population should at least try to get used to this. I´ve already forgotten my eco bag at home when going to the supermarket with my mom and we had to ask for some empty boxes. I mean...it´s not the end of the world! We just have to get used to it.

I know we still use plastic for fruits, etc. But the thing about the plastic bag is the quantity. Think about the amount of plastic bags that you used to accumulate. Imagine this number multiplied by a billion people!

It´s insane!

So yes, we still use plastic bags for a few things but if we can reduce the use of this bags I think it´s worth trying.

Roberta 1M

The fact is that supermarket nets are using the plastic bags ban as a marketing tool to promote themselves as "ecologically corrects" because these same supermarkets use a lot of Styrofoam trays to package their products and this is a material much more noxious than plastic because it emits toxic gases during its decomposition.

Plastic bags, as it has already been discussed at length last year in São Paulo, are very harmful to the environment. They are not biodegradable, demand lots of energy and petrol to be produced, cause obstruction in the waterway and beyond that, can cause the death of many animals, which, under the sea, easily mistake plastic bags for food. It may even be truth that banning plastic bags is another way to collect our money by using an environmental argument, however, in my opinion, we are paying to save the environment.

Banning exclusively the use of plastic bag will not make a difference. Perhaps it is a short first step, however, another actions should be created in order to enchance the enviroment. Let's consider supporting the creation of recycling cooperatives. The South Shore Recycling Cooperative is a great example of how recycling is a positive attitude not only considering environmentalists' interests but also for economy. Take a look at the their page on internet:

http://ssrcoop.info/

I trult believe that if we want to make a change, one isolated effort will not be enough.

Paper, they are actually cheaper in the bid scheme of things.

1 plastic bag is cheaper than 1 paper bag.

However, 4-6 plasic bags are more expensive than 2 paper bags and those 2 paper bags can hold more items.

Paper is much stronger and environmentally greener, if you care, I don't.

Kroger and Whole foods use recycled paper which does no require further damage to

trees.

Plastic damages the environment and requires oil in order to be made. More people are inclined to reuse paper bags for some sort of purpose like gift rap, garbage bag, or bookcover, ect. Plastic bags get thrown away and outside. Just look around!

I totally agree with Wanderley1M. The the banishment of plastic bags is not the solution for all the environment problems, but it is a first step.

We have two issues to be discussed. First, plastic bags should be ban because it is one of many ways of trying to "help" the environment. Second, we should have alternative solutions for the replacement of these bags. Like Wanderley said, one isolated effort will not be enough.

I lived for many years in a city where the plastic bags are not ban but we have a recycling cooperative with almost 5 families and 100% of the garbage is recycled. Worked pretty well and city employees claim that it is not expensive and totally practicable.

We have to be aware because if the real cause of this change really were the environment, it would be extendend to all kinds of trade and not just supermarkets, there is an economical reason involved on it.

In this link from MPF of Paraíba, they talk about a different method of replacement which has worked very well in Blangadesh, they changed plastic bags for bags made of natural thread or cloth, they are made by the local community and consequently boost the economy, check it out:

The forbiddance of the distribution of free plastic bag in the supermarkets is not a big deal when our behaviour is adequate to that way of shopping, so, we are going just to replace these bags for another one that we will pay for. Of course the stuffs we buy more often are food, but regarding to a changing of behaviour, every shop should take a similar action about the environment cause, because when we buy other kind of product, or even food in the street market, we receive a big quantity of plastic. The way some products are sold could be also reviewed. Years ago products like rice and beans as another grains and cereals are presented in the market in a big sac and the customers would take the quantity they want and bring home in paper bags, what today could be a recycled one. Of course that old way doesn’t fit with the way of life the capitalism creates but is an idea that could be taken in account to think about an efficient one.

Ana Paula Magalhães - 7610834

I agree with Narayan1M when she said the question is controling the uses and how people get rid of plastic bags. If here in Brazil we had a policy of recycling things would be different. The problem is not using or not plastic bags but what will happen with them after it. Instead of creating this policy governmants decided that the consummers need to pay for the bags. The "idea it's interesting because when you're paying for something you think twice before just throwing something away. But I remember the first bag i needed to buy in a supermarket near usp coasts me R$ 1,50. It's a little expensive isn't it? In my case it works because always i'm going to the supermarket i don't forget my bag because i remember that it coasts the earth now. But it didn't happen with other people and this is one of the reasons some markets are given free plastic bags againg but rationally now. The use was reduced, but what is most important doesn't have a solution yet. The way people continue getting rid the plastic bags.

Marília Souza 1M

The plastic bags after their creation have became quickly popular with their free distribution. Currently in the world are produced 1 million plastic bags per minute. Something highly damaging for the environment because they take at least 300 years to decompose completely. This government decision about the payment for plastic bags is the initial action for the people begin to become aware of their responsibility to the environment future adopting the rule of “3 Rs”- reduce, reuse, recycle.

Marisa1m

It´s not a solution, but it´s a first step. I totally agree.

And yes, companies might be using this to create a fake green image, but its better than nothing.

Marisa showed us very impressive numbers about the plastic bags. So, if we can al least reduce it, why not?

One person is not gonna chance anything, but if everybody makes an effort we can do something to change the way that people deal with environmental issues.

One step at a time.

Roberta 1M

I'm sorry, but what's the source of your information Marisa.

Of course we must reduce this number, however, the question posed on the topic was about solutions over the countries that banned the plastic bags and it was worthwhile. Why India banned but Brazil still face problems?!

I'm sorry, but what's the source of your information Marisa?

Of course we must reduce this number, however, the question posed on the topic was about solutions over the countries that banned the plastic bags and it was worthwhile. Why India banned but Brazil still face problems?!

Mariana Lettieri Ferreira (7612579)

plastic bags shoulld be banned, since we have more eco bags like papper bags now.