Why is Pedophilia Wrong READ MY DEBATE BEFORE YOU ANSWER
There is a problem when something cannot be debated rationally.
This is not a position on the debate, but an observance - the 'debate' on pedophilia is no debate at all, so far, merely bringing angry tirades and ad hominem.
Is there any subject that can't be debated rationally? One could make a rational argument against murder, but not pedophilia?
Please, make rational arguments. If someone wishes, I will take either side on this debate. Rationally.
Edit: I was writing this when the last post was added. It includes rational argument.
Ok, I've finally decided to chime in. As a pedophile can't help who they are attracted to - nobody can - the attraction is not 'wrong' in any justifiable sense. Actions are what counts. Molestation is wrong, child or other, so any actions would have to be non-sexual to be right in modern western society.
I know of other societies that have included children sexually, but they don't matter in the here and now. It's possible that some actions might not have caused harm in those societies, but that is not relevant. What is relevant is the harm that, in all likelihood, is caused by any sexual activity between adults and children in our societies.
My biggest issue regarding this is - children will experiment, among themselves, and first, we are too quick to blame one child from experimenting with another, and we also hide the reality of sexuality from children, which makes them that much more likely to experiment. The stigma of accusing a child of being a molester stays with them for life, and what is likely a victimless situation has now created two victims.
because pedophiles don't choose to like young boys/girls
That's cool but Jeffrey Dahmer didn't choose to like having sex with decapitated heads either. It still doesn't mean we should let people do it. I'm as liberal as they come and I'm a cultural relativist, but even I understand you have to draw the line somewhere. There is just no way on Earth that a three year old should be having sexual experiences with anyone, let alone an adult. Life has a natural series of phases and the onset of puberty generally determines when someone is ready to engage in sexual activity. If you are trying to have sex with people before they can read and perhaps even before they can walk then that is a psychological problem which you need to understand is your problem and not theirs. I honestly wish the stigma of paedophilia would go away so that people like you wouldn't feel afraid to get treated. I don't believe witch hunts are a solution to any problem in society.
If you are a cultural relativist, you will soon be conditioned to think like political correct Big Brother wants you to think about pedophilia.
You have already denied biology when it comes to sanctioning Homosexuality as a natural normal sexual orientation.
You probably are fine with Transgender laws coming into effect.
You are the low end voter who is slowly conditioned to follow the world's humanistic views of life. You will fall into line with any new age cultural change as they bombard you with constant media conditining to the PC way to think.
Without God, mankind has NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH to hold to.
Are you saying that pedophilia is an example of something that goes against absolute truth? If so I agree, but for how long will you hold on to that truth when the world tells you that you are a judgmental fundamentalist for having such views.
I do agree with this I think they should be able to do this when they hit a age where they can have there own independent thought like 8 or 9.
I think that people hunting for pedos is harmful and the taking down of child porn websites is dumb because it takes away there only sexual outlet so they can live normal.
I think it is easier to see how pedophilia is wrong when you get older, and it finally really occurs to you just how undeveloped even the cleverest and well spoken teenager/adolescent is.
Yeah, I think I just used the "You'll get it when you're older" line.
Sex is not something to take rightly. The prevailing attitude towards sex in the mainstream culture is not very healthy. It is very destructive.
Sex outside of marriage is harmful and immoral. The pagans don't understand how marriage isn't an arbitrary thing. It has everything to do with the future generation and its health. Sexual immorality degrades the value of a human being, and besides that it is unsanitary in every way.
Besides that, a man and a woman coming together, working it out, and raising a peaceful household is damn near like accomplishing world peace. It is more skillful. It is a great way to practice charity with sincere faith.
Besides all that, it's really about the children. Children need to develop a defense against their desires for gratification while they are still somewhat sheltered. When they go out in the world, they need a defense, because the world full of deviants who in the end are going to hurt them. If they don't know how to resist that desire, it will lead them into a lot of trouble.
A child who has an adult courting them is already in a lot of trouble. That kid is going to grow up with psychological issues. It's true that things like this in the formative years can stick with a person for the rest of their lives. The adult is not being right to the kid. Any kind of justification here is to satisfy their own lust. A kid may go up to an adult and initiate that sort of thing. It is up to the adult to be unflinching and unhesitatingly unambiguous that it just ain't going to happen. If you don't do that, you are committing an evil against that child. Don't be swayed by reason, you can make a case for anything with reason.
IF you are having these problems of attraction, know that the psyche can be changed and influenced. It can be programmed. Don't hang on to this. It'd be better to leave the kids alone.
Here it is folks. Proof to what I said would happen as we go down this slippery slope of political correctness when it comes to unnatural abnormal sexual orientatons.
I said that once Gay activists pushed through their forced marriage laws on all States, and then trangender activists forced every public school bathroom to allow so called transgender kids in the boys and girls bathrooms, and all public rest rooms to allow transgender people, we would then move on to pedophiles who also say they are born that way.
Do you see how it works? The Left gets a foot hold with appointed activist Liberal judges, and then one by one force our nation to bow to the political correct activism of these special interest groups.
Everyone will start saying they are born that way so therefore it is supposedly natural and ok.
Did you see the debate about Harvard teaching how anal sex is ok, and how to do it?
This is the no fault depraved Godless culture the Left is ushering in with their insane political correctness. No longer are we allowed to say anything is unnatural or abnormal. We must all censor our voices to bow to the political correct big brothers of our world.
Here's an observation of the total conditional hypocrisy and double standard from the Left. They say that all these unnatural sexual orientations are with people who are born that way, and therefore ok and something we should respect and sanction as ok.
Funny how when it comes to viable late term special need's babies who the Left supports killing in the womb for merely being diverse and different, and who would also be BORN THAT WAY, they are not afforded any rights or political correct protection.
NO!!!!! These innocent special needs babies are tested for their so called abnormalcy and killed! NO TOLERANCE FOR THOSE SPECIAL OLYMPIC CHILDREN'S DIVERSITY!
Now we will hear all the Liberals screaming how they don't support pedophile rights as they did with Gay marriage and Transgender laws before because teens are not old enough to consent.
But with every year they will change with the Political correct times while the pedophile activist voices, such as this screwed up individual, get ever louder with the help of Liberal media. I wonder when the age limits for consenting children will start dropping?
When a nation separates God from it's moral foundation, it will collapse from the no fault anything goes slippery slope. Nothing is sacred in a Godless nation. Values will change with the times and the loudest bully pulpit.
I find this terribly insulting. Every word of it. I'm a Unitarian, Su I believe that everyone is on their own search for god. Therefore how can we be godless?
Also, to compare a person loving another person to am inexcusable act of child abuse is completely arbitrary.
You have shown that you are close minded in the past, but this is perhaps one of the more insulting, rude arguments.
I would simply like to remind you that not everyone thinks just like you. Don't fault people for not believing in a god who died nothing but expects us to serve him. Don't fault people for love, and the right to live people equally. And furthermore, you've NEVER, EVER been in a position where you need an abortion. So I wouldn't be talking.
Are you TRULY that blind to your total hypocrisy? ARE YOU?
You sit there calling pedophilia as being child abuse (which it is) while living in some kind of lala land whereby KILLING VIABLE CHILDREN IS SOMEONE'S RIGHT!
You just got done saying that not all people think just like myself. You are correct, some people think having sex with kids is ok, and other people think KILLING viable babies is OK.
I still possess the humanity to understand that both of those things are inexcusable unless we are dealing with extreme case exceptions.
It is you that better start understanding that not all people think like you....THANKFULLY, and that there are people who lack the most basic of humanity to understand right from wrong.
Why do we have drinking age limits? BECAUSE KIDS ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO HANDLE ALCOHOL!
It's the same for sex. KIDS ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH NOR REPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE CONSEQUENCES OF SEX!
If you are so mindnumbingly stupid to not understand how adults could seduce or pressure a child into sex, then you do not deserve to even be on a debate sight.
GET A LIFE AND GET HELP FOR YOUR SICK DISORDER.
You make many valid points. And I'm willing to keep an open mind to the reality that many things society has deemed wrong could have gone the other way. Indeed there were cultures in history where pedophilia was an accepted part of the culture.
a) I'm not a pedophile myself, and as the father of two young boys I don't want them to fall prey to a pedophile, so I can oppose it on a personal basis.
b) There is a wide world of millions of lonely adults out there in both genders and in all shapes and sizes. I've known adults who physically looked like children, and adults who mentally and emotionally acted like children even though they were full grown. Quite frankly I don't believe it's impossible for even a pedophile to find someone in the adult range who could indulge them.
c) In the words of Stan Marsh... "Dude! You have sex!... With Children!...."
You can oppose it on a personal basis???????
You are everything I speak of with this anything goes culture. You can't even bring yourself to denounce pedophilia ON A CRIMINAL BASIS, because you have been brinwashed into this Political correct anything goes depravity.
You are the exact low end voter I constantly speak to. You are so easily conditioned to think as PC Big Brother tells you to think. You believe taking a stand against obvious right and wrong is being judgmental unless of course it has to do with killing viable late term special needs children. Then you are fine with it.
It is truly sad people have degraded to this stand for nothing amoral humanistic belief system. But then again, God said this would happen and it is. You and those who actually think like you are the greatest proof to God's existence than anything I've ever witnessed.
You're a dolt. Opposing it on a personal basis means I oppose it myself regardless of whether the laws or religion or philosophy or you yourself oppose it. Meaning I'm all in for opposing it. It doesn't mean anything goes. It doesn't in any way even hint that I'm for anything goes. I voted against and gave multiple reasons for against. There was no ambiguity.
"I personally believe that it is ok to be a pedophilia"
As long as they don't act on their urges or support child-pornographers, sure. In other words, as long as they control themselves and don't sexually abuse children, or support those that do.
"most pedophiles treat. there partner with the most respect possible and would do nothing to harm the child and only preforms actions with the Childs consent"
So if a child consents to taking heroin is this perfectly OK in your book? What if the adult convinces the child to allow them to surgically remove the child's legs?
"if anything society and social stigma causes all the harm to the child"
No, for one thing paedophiles are more likely to have been the victims of childhood sexual abuse themselves (Source 1), though this is strictly correlational. In addition, a plethora of long term negative effects have been documented on people that were sexually abused as a child (Source 2,3,4,5).
"how can they consent to sports not being able to understand the risk"
If you think the long term effects of playing a sport are at all similar to those caused by childhood sexual abuse then read my sources again, please.
"children are sexual beings multiple studies show that children you as 3 have sexual curiosity some where between 3 and 6 they start masterbation"
Citation needed. Also children are curious about everything.
"most pedophiles treat. there partner with the most respect possible and would do nothing to harm the child and only preforms actions with the Childs consent"
"So if a child consents to taking heroin is this perfectly OK in your book? What if the adult convinces the child to allow them to surgically remove the child's legs?"
no I do not think that it is ok for a child to do heroin or remove there legs. but there is good reason for that the heroin makes the kid have physical dependence and addiction plus damage to the brain and the leg thing 1st no doctor would do that 2ed it would ruin anyones life regardless.
"if anything society and social stigma causes all the harm to the child"
"No, for one thing paedophiles are more likely to have been the victims of childhood sexual abuse themselves (Source 1), though this is strictly correlational. In addition, a plethora of long term negative effects have been documented on people that were sexually abused as a child (Source 2,3,4,5)."
actual considering that there is a estimate that 1-3 percent of the population is a pedofile and that only 30 present claim to be molested as a child when found out that there a pedo in court most lawyers tell the pedo to say that in order to gain empathy from the judge(this proves that this is faulty) and over 78% of people who where "abused" dont become a pedo
the rest don't need explaining
"no I do not think that it is ok for a child to do heroin or remove there legs. but there is good reason for that the heroin makes the kid have physical dependence and addiction plus damage to the brain and the leg thing 1st no doctor would do that 2ed it would ruin anyones life regardless."
So basically the fact that the child consents is irrelevant because it is so harmful to the child. Interesting, you just made my argument for me.
"actual considering that there is a estimate that 1-3 percent of the population is a pedofile and that only 30 present claim to be molested as a child when found out that there a pedo in court most lawyers tell the pedo to say that in order to gain empathy from the judge(this proves that this is faulty) and over 78% of people who where "abused" dont become a pedo"
The participants of study 1 weren't asked in court, they were asked as part of the study. The fact that 22% of people who were abused do become paedophiles which is well above the average (1-3%) by your own figures suggests an interaction between the two variables.
"the rest don't need explaining"
So the fact that childhood sexual abuse is linked to psychopathy, depression, anxiety disorders, eating disorders, insomnia etc. "doesn't need explaining"? I think it's rather obvious I cited these sources in order to demonstrate the harm to the child.
I personally believe that it is ok to be a xenomelian/rapist/masochist/megalomaniac
2. most treat. there partner with the most respect possible and would do nothing to harm the child and only preforms actions with(out) the victim's consent
3.if anything society and social stigma causes all the harm to the victims let me explain imagine if you hated a yourself/another but every one considers your desires wrong and it was illegal because people didn't like it (like in the old days with interracial lovers) some one found out about you to he/she go's to prison where they will be beaten and torched for who they love(love in the lunatic world, hate in reality). after that you where told you were a victim that he/she didn't love you that they only wanted you for harm. then you have to go to court and testify against the one you don't know knowing that you are sending them to there doom. They deserved it righ?
4.people argue that its that they can consent I can say if they can't consent to harm then how can they consent to sports(health) not being able to understand the risk, how can they consent to religion(moral foundation) because not even full grown adults understand it, how can they consent to circumcision? just asking?(hmmm not intelligent)
5. Victims are vulnerable beings multiple studies show that victims as young as 3 have harm awareness.
6.some people say that they don't have vulnerability. they do but not the type until fully demonstrated in real life experience. too late
The maker of this debate either did not have parents(dead,separated)/ had alcholic parents/ was reared not trained by parents.
do you agree of disagree put you argument below
Yes so you get. That stupid lame statement "born this way" i didn't choose to be gay/pedophile/rapist/xenomelian/
When there is no gay gene or of the above mentioned affirming and differentiating these mental cases from normal humans.
There is not one proof of any biological substance proven to exist in these lunatics alone(special) compelling them to act choiceless.
I have a hunger thirst for killing gays.
That is my attraction. I have rights to satisfy my pleasure. I didn't choose to feel this way. I can get a good lawyer(liar) to prove it well in court and get government to legalise it after a couple protests.
After being legalised i will go for the rest of paddock's guns(las veg. shooter). Because we kinda share similar attractions. We were born this way.
Assuming you put morality, ethics and our legal system aside, I find this to be the bottom line argument:
Children are not mature enough to make a decision "consent" about whether or not to join in a physical relationship because they are not ready to do so. If the debate was "is a 16 year old mature enough to consent to a physical relationship", I think we could have a healthy debate. The question is not is it wrong or right because I believe it is wrong the the above grounds. The question is what is the correct age for the age of consent. That being said, our society often migrates to the lowest common denominator which in the case of the US is 18 years of age, the same as the voting age... Interestingly enough, children are allowed to drive at the age of 15 with supervision and 16 with additional restrictions. I think the only question is what is the appropriate age of consent.
Perhaps a necromancer is not the right word. But in the Original Hebrew the Deu 18:11 passage describing a NECROMANCER.
This Word NECROMANCER is in HEBREW saying or described as
The Three Hebrew words that in Hebrew that mean NECROMANCER are
Hebrew 1875 דּרשׁ dârash / daw-rash'
Meaning - to follow (for pursuit or search); by implication to seek or ask.
Hebrew 413 אל אל 'êl 'el / ale, el
Meaning -about, after, among, of or unto, or -in).
Hebrew 4191 מוּת mûth / mooth
meaning - The Dead, to die ( dead death, necro [-mancer],
SO ------------ This English word NECROMANCER. - that you see in the KJV Bible. is three Hebrew words.
דּרשׁ dârash -
אל אל 'êl 'el -
מוּת mûth / mooth
These Three words Mean simply Following The Dead.
The main problem is that The Roman Catholic Church worldwide has handed The KEYS to the CHURCH over to the Gay and Lesbian community.
The Homosexual community worldwide and here in America has been handed the very KEYS to The Roman Catholic Church and the gays have stuck the rest of the Catholic community and also the general taX payers - with all of the bills.
The bills of paying for their seXual gay pleasures, adventures and seXual gay joys and eXperiences with innocent, beautiful little precious baby boys.
The homoseXual community worldwide did not lift a hand or bat an eye to help or support the thousands victims of the Gay priests who raped, molested and hurt thousands little kids.
And The Catholic Church has placed the KEYS To The Church right in their hand.
Straight / Hetrosexual Men do not molest and rape little boys.
This is the doing of a gay or biseXual man.
Thousands of Gay men were allowed to use their positions and power and status as a ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST to conduct a personal literal Gay Quest .
Billions and Billions of dollars in OUR AMERICAN TAXES and DONATIONS CHARITIES .
OUR TAXES and DONATIONS and GIFTS contributions, presents and handouts and offerings.
Billions have been lost and thrown away
Money, property and land and buildings that The Catholics across the planet have lost that could have been used to help the poor and needy-
Even could have helped the dreamers and undocumented children immigrants of DACA.
But instead, the billions have all been thrown away into the legal system to pay the seXual bills and fees, fines and court costs and settlements for the seXual adventures and pleasures of the Gay Community worldwide.
Having seX with a child can be very, very eXpensive and the Gay community eXpects You and I to pay this bill.
There are many, many Roman Catholics, Muslims, Hindus and peoples of many faiths and ATHIESTS TOO, who are caring, concerned, moral and great people of all faiths and types of people.
But this is the same problem that even Hillary Clinton had - Her homoseXual Military, homoseXual FBI, homoseXual CIA and homoseXual leadership and manipulators -
The Democrat party also has handed the KEYS to the American Government over to the Gay and Lesbian community worldwide -
and it cost them elections and also COST the American taXpayers millions of dollars to clean up their filthy mess.
The Democratic party would rather not have the presidency and win the Elections because The Democrat body is so corrupted and entrenched in the drug and an illegal activity lifestyle they could not manage to stumble into the white house.
They would rather keep their illegal activity lifestyles, good times, Pleasures - Foreign Contacts, Secret and all the illegal ways that they obtained them. –
The insider trading and scams -CORRUPTION and BETRAYAL - So They Smash Phones and hard drives and take a nationwide sledge hammer to everything and delete every E Mail that shows what their activities have been.
They rather not have a Democrat president if they have to turn in their Taxpayer provided supplies inventories and INFO. Because they already got what they wanted. They do not need the White House.
They have everything they need by illegality.
They are eXactly like the Roman Catholic Church in that they as well has placed the entire Government and Sovereignty, Security and Safety and FUTURE of the USA, right into the Hands of the Homosexual mob.
The Whole FBI could not stumble into the White House because they are so inebriated, impaired and drunk with corruption, shame, and disgusting willful failure.
Sanity is not important in a world of people who are willfully ignorant. Survival is the only thing that matters.
There are people who will place a child's hand into a homosexuals hand and walk away for a bag of dope.
You reminded me of that when I thought of You and Your one step theological post.
I would like to chime in. People need to keep their emotions in check because the problem with this topic is the moment they see the word "pedophile" or "pedophilia" they just get angry, disgusted and become filled with outrage and cannot even conceive the possibility of anything other than their own position.
People have to understand that pedophile and child molester are two different things. They are not the same thing. Yes, certainly SOME child molesters may be pedophiles but you cannot say that all pedophiles are child molesters. Some murderers are drunks but that doesn't mean that all drunks are murderers. You have to understand that separation. The act of drinking and driving is wrong. Simply being drunk is not what is wrong.
Am I making clear sense here? I just want to dumb it down because that's what I do best. I keep things very clear and logical. It's my gift.
So back to the topic. The problem is the word pedophile has become attached to child molesters and that is the problem here. Please know that most child molesters are not pedophiles. They are your dads, brothers, uncles, grandpas, drunkards, depressed people, lonely people, crimes of opportunity, or simply they wanted to sexually molest anyone it just happened to be someone who was "underage" and now considered "a child".
If there were an entire race of people who were pedophiles but they never committed a crime against a child, would you want to gas chamber all of them and wipe them out completely? Are you really sure about that?
Now of course, we also run into different levels of issues here. If the law made it that 18 years old is considered adult and 17 years old and 364 days is considered a "child", well then, as you can see there is going to be a big problem. There is this imaginary line that was been created to label someone an adult or a child. I realize there are pedophiles that have a very particular taste and some go very young like 3 - 6 years old. But I think that most pedophiles that are getting tangled up in the web are the majority of men out there who do find girls as young as 13 - 17 attractive. I've already conducted my own personal tests and have found that most men online find young girls attractive, both sexually/physically and some for their personality/character traits. Without even knowing the ages of the girls they were speaking to, there's no shortage of what you might call your "average" man who would make sexual advances on a 12 or 13 year old girl. It's plain fact, but of course you'll never really see them express that out in public in the real world around their friends or families etc. So this begs the question, are a great majority of human beings just mentally screwed up or is there a conflict between how the law defines things and what our natural biological instincts tell us?
I'm not one to tell the world what is right and what is wrong. But simply, for most human history, girls were married off or had children in their teens. That was not an uncommon or unusual thing. You have to remember that in most of human history, we did not have the luxury we have today. It was about survival and preservation and propagation. When the average person was dying of disease or war or other forces of nature in their 30s, 40s, 50s, one is not concerned about the age of your spouse etc. That becomes almost a non-issue. However, in today's world, we no longer worry about things like survival, propagation, etc. So it is no longer of anyone's utmost importance to find a mate at a young age and propagate. We can delay that as late as in our 30s 40s even 50s now. So it makes any sort of marriage/mating formation of young teens a very unusual, even ILLEGAL status now.
What I'm trying to say is that laws are often dictated based on the circumstances of the times you are living in. What was once illegal before is now legal today or what was once legal before is now illegal today...and they will continue to change over time as our circumstances change.
I don't have a definitive age or cut off line to say what is fair game or what isn't, but I just know that pedophilia is not something that is so outcast and rare or unusual limited to only a few sick minds. It's not that at all. It's what some people like. It's what some people find attractive and I don't think you can really hate anyone for having feelings. But of course, if anyone abuses a child in any form, it is not right. So I don't think crucifying and attacking pedophiles is the correct approach. It's more a matter of lack of understanding because most of us just have that word associated automatically with child molester/predator/dangerous/perv etc.
Being a pedophile is a legal law terminology or a Psychology term
You are right - All Child Molesters are Pedophiles.
But not all of the Pedophiles have yet been able to get ahold of a child.
Someone who knows for sure that pedophiles are around children and do nothing to stop them.
would not this person with this knowledge also be guilty of the Pedophilia ?
By allowing the Pedophile the opportunity to be alone with the child and covering up and promoting the person while they know the dangers and attraction to children.
The word first appears around 1886, used by the Austrian psychologist Kraft-Ebbing. He used it to label people sexually attracted to children under the age of 14. Pedophilia.
Like Pope Benedict tried to hide the facts that Pedophiles were having reports about them that they were attracted to children and rumors and even outright MOLESTATION was taking place.
Pope Benedict was in on the PEDOPHILLIA although He never was there when the crime was committed.
Benedict was summoned to court several times Here in the USA, for hiding the facts concerning the reports of Pedophiles.
Would this make Him guilty of the furthering of Pedophilia activity ?
Yeah, and pretty much every sexually confused and messed up person I know was sexually abused as a child.
I know a lot of em too.
Kids need to have a defense built up against sexual urges when they are young. If they don't, it could get them and the people around them into trouble when they are older. It can also really effect their love life in a negative way. What comes from a Godly marriage is like medicine to a mentally ill and confused culture.
Sexual immorality? It does more harm to a society psychologically than damn near any other type of morality. It is death from inside. It's nothing to take lightly.
You mock the bible, but I don't believe you have the same understanding of it that I do. It looks to me like you might be superstitious about it. I would encourage you to rethink the matter.
You are the sick Political correct brainwashing Liberals we have in our schools today. We don't send our children to schools to be brainwashed into your sick political correct ideology.
We send them there to be educated in the basics.... math, english, science, etc.
Keep your twisted thinking in your own home.
We send them there to be educated in the basics.... math, english, science, etc.
But you are a Biblical creationist who doesn't believe in science. All of your posts are emotionally and religiously charged rantings, peppered with choice words like "sick", "brainwashed" and "we" (as if your views somehow represent those of everybody else).