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In a resource rich economy one that has oil and diamonds why would they want to change the existing system as a nation and switch to a resource based economy ?
“Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.”
― Thomas Sowell
“No government of the left has done as much for the poor as capitalism has. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market walks the walk.
What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that creates vastly more wealth? Yet the political left has long had a remarkable lack of interest in how wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists somehow and the only interesting question is how to redistribute it.”
Hi Marcus , thank you for that interesting piece ; capitalism isn't perfect but it works for most people where I'm from anyway , I don't like any of the alternatives
Capitalism isn't perfect but it works for most people where I'm from anyway
Slavery worked because when it was abolished a lot of slaves stayed of their own free will.
Or...
It was all they had ever known, they did not properly understand it, and everyone they were friends with was also a slave.
The very fact that you all use the exact same meaningless generic lines like "capitalism isn't perfect but it's the best we've got", proves that you all have been indoctrinated with the belief that you should never scrutinise capitalism. Your society is either unwilling or incapable of analysing capitalism critically, and whenever anybody tries to force you, these generic arguments in a can become the staple response. It's exactly the same thing that you do with guns. You use these lines not for the benefit of the people you are arguing with, but to reinforce your own identical belief systems with each other.
Explain to me Dermot, why a system which donates 90 percent of the product of your own labour to someone else who did not work for it is the best we can do. This is, as far as I am concerned, absolutely ridiculous. Capitalism is a pyramid system and pyramid systems are purpose designed to exploit the many for the benefit of the few.
Nomenclature, I've analysed most economic systems and I did say capitalism isn't perfect what are viable alternatives in your opinion ?
Nomenclature regards my own labour and you claiming 90 percent goes to someone else who did not work for it well that's not true in my case , I'm a full time artist and lecturer I'm allowed earn 70,000 euro before paying 1 cent in taxes as artists in the Irish republic are tax free up to certain limits , that's includes musicians , writers , sculptors , poets etc,etc ; my wife is a financial analyst for an American multinational and is very well loooked after so our experience has been pretty good under the capitalist system .
“Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three centuries has involved replacing what never worked with what barely worked. That's why capitalism was established”- Thomas Factswell "No government of the world has done jack shit for the poor, poor people didn't exist before the monetary system. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market doesn't even pretend to care." What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that is based on tangible resources rather than wealth? Yet the politicians of all labels have long had a remarkable lack of interest in how resources can be used to help the poor, they only care that wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists somehow and the only interesting question is how to accumulate it.”
I am interested in what you wrote, but I am having a hard time understanding how your ideas hole together. Your viewpoint seems to be based on completely different definitions of critical terms than what are in common use in economics or standard parlance.
In order to have any idea about what you wrote, I need to know what exactly you mean by the following terms:
- Poor - Normally this means "not having enough of basic necessities" or even "having less than (2/3 of) other people in the society. However, you wrote that "What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. and "poor people didn't exist before the monetary system."
You say people have a NEED not to be poor. This implies an absolute definition of poverty. So, I need yourdefinition of poorthat explains how the monetary system either
- a - changes how it matters whether or not people have enough with or without a monetary system.
OR
- b - changes whether people have more than others in their society/community. This would need to be reconciled with the "need not to be poor".
- Monetary system - Normally currency is used as a stand in for both tangible and intangible resources that are difficult to transport on one's person for purposes of barter.
What exactly do you mean by monetary system and how does it relate to your definition of poor or poverty?
How does money by your definition relate (or not) to tangible resources?
How does money by your definition relate to intangible resources.
- Income - What do you mean by income?
How does income relate to your definition of poor?
Obviously a monetary system would NOT be required for income in the standard sense (e.g. a harvest would be income resulting from planting a crop, or meat would be income from hunting, and a paycheck is income for taking part in a corporate endeavor), so how does your definition of income differ from the standard definition?
Also, you discuss tangible resources, but you don't discuss the role of intangible resources like skills and knowledge. In all societies with all subsistence strategies (hunter-gatherer, nomadic herder, horticultural, agricultural, industrial, technological) the accessibility and usability of tangible resources depend ENTIRELY on intangible resources.
Please account for intangible resources in your definitions/explanations.
I look forward to understanding what you mean well enough to discuss it with you.
The only criticism of capitalism the video makes is that you need money to do things. Since money is a proxy for the barter of resources and services, and since resources are necessary for life, this makes sense. Strangely no criticism of central banking, quantitative easing, fractional reserve banking and the lack of a gold/silver standard; the biggest criticisms that can be levied at our current monetary system. Also, recently with crowdfunding and patronage one can overcome the monetary barrier to good deeds or starting up a company.
When he speaks of considering those who made the atom bomb "bums" it demonstrates a lack of historical awareness. The Japanese were the most advanced in biological and chemical warfare at the time, due in part to the horrific experimentation that took place in unit 731 and other facilities. Without the creation and use of the atom bomb, the war would have been far more costly in human life, not that this has anything to do with capitalism or money. Further, M.A.D. is a large reason why the cold war remained a proxy war, in addition to making wars between nuclear capable nations unprofitable.
I posted another video that was almost an hour long about the federal reserve in my debate about the federal reserve and it went over everything you mentioned about the fractional reserve system, if anyone had actually watched that video or participated in that debate maybe you would have had no need to write the first half of that comment but instead you where all too busy bickering about the same left versus right bullshit that you always do every single day. If you ask me the people who made the atom bomb where bums, and the Japanese leaders where bums, and the Nazi's (obviously) where bums, they where all just a bunch of bums sending people to their deaths for their own power. There is one simple way that world war 2 could have been entirely prevented- If the average human being wasn't a brainwashed robot living their life in submission to one regime or another, blind to the fact that the entire existence of a "government" only serves as a platform for idiots and sociopaths to fuck up everyone else's life. If the average robotic piece of human waste could realize this, then Hitler would never have risen to power, the atom bomb would never have been built, there would have been no war and no threat from the Japanese, it's all because people are willing to fight and die for the state, that is what makes all wars possible.
"I posted another video that was almost an hour long about the federal reserve in my debate about the federal reserve and it went over everything you mentioned about the fractional reserve system"
Yet you posted this video as a critique of capitalism, so you must have thought that this video contained good criticism of capitalism.
"If you ask me the people who made the atom bomb where bums, and the Japanese leaders where bums, and the Nazi's (obviously) where bums, they where all just a bunch of bums sending people to their deaths for their own power."
First of all, when you call someone a "bum", it isn't substantive criticism. Second of all, while the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused ~200k deaths, whereas 200k-580k Chinese died in Changde from a singular use of Japanese biological warfare. Use of nuclear weapons unquestionably resulted in less deaths, especially since a similar biological attack was planned against the U.S. 5 weeks after their surrender. If you think it makes you a "bum" to reduce death then I wish I was a "bum". Also, there is no equivalence between defensive war and offensive war.
"There is one simple way that world war 2 could have been entirely prevented- If the average human being wasn't a brainwashed robot living their life in submission to one regime or another, blind to the fact that the entire existence of a "government" only serves as a platform for idiots and sociopaths to fuck up everyone else's life."
Yet it is necessary to have a state in order to defend against other states effectively.
"If the average robotic piece of human waste could realize this, then Hitler would never have risen to power, the atom bomb would never have been built, there would have been no war and no threat from the Japanese, it's all because people are willing to fight and die for the state, that is what makes all wars possible."
I'm no fan of the state but it does seem necessary to have a professional military and police force in order to protect the people.
First of all, when you call someone a "bum", it isn't substantive criticism. Second of all, while the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused ~200k deaths, whereas 200k-580k Chinese died in Changde from a singular use of Japanese biological warfare.
Ah yes of course. Him calling you a bum isn't "substantive criticism", but the Bundy defence is "substantive criticism" (i.e. it was fine for me to rape her because Bundy did it too).
Winston, your posts contain lots of big words and absolutely zero reason. It's fairly comical.
"Ah yes of course. Him calling you a bum isn't "substantive criticism", but the Bundy defence is "substantive criticism" (i.e. it was fine for me to rape her because Bundy did it too). "
So self-defense is analogous to raping an unrelated person? I suppose that makes sense if you're a troll.
Yes it does. It keeps making whites and minorities who aren't lazy pieces of dog shit well off despite being born with nothing. Now go make excuses and look for a way to get someone with ambition's money so you can sit on your ass due to the magic money that appeared without hard work.
We can get rid of capitalism. Of course your cable, computer, and cell phone will disappear with it. But at least you'll be equally miserable as everyone else is as you die waiting in line for a doctor, basic food, and clean water.
Thanks for the sarcasm at the start. More to the point, thanks for the explanation afterward to ensure that the obtuse folks on both left and right could see you were being sarcastic. ;)
It amazes me that there are people who use devices (computers) and services (internet) which are made and distributed through the results of capitalists' investments and capitalist activities, to denigrate capitalism.
It is hypocrisy used as a method to attempt suicide.
It amazes me that there are people who use devices (computers) and services (internet) which are made and distributed through the results of capitalists' investments and capitalist activities, to denigrate capitalism.
What amazes me is how spectacularly indoctrinated by capitalism you are. The fact that you actually seem to believe capitalism is responsible for technological evolution is just simply stunning. How do you rectify your bizarre theory with everything which was invented before capitalism? Or are you saying nothing was invented before capitalism? By your own logic computers could not have been invented without the discovery of electricity, and that happened in 17th century Europe (in fact it was arguably the ancient Greeks who first discovered it). Therefore nobody should criticise imperial feudalism otherwise we'd have no electric!!!??? What a simply senseless thing to believe.
You often criticise Islam Marcus, but the problem is that Muslims invented clocks and maps. So again, using your own logic, you can't criticise Islam because without it you wouldn't know where you are or what time of day it is. The same applies to you criticising Communism. You can't do that any more because without Communism you wouldn't have satellites.
Your thoughts are following precisely the same spectacular pattern of confirmation bias which is regularly exhibited by the devoutly religious. In other words, you are presenting "evidence" of God which is not logically evidence of God.
My 98 year old Grandma used to say "Everything in moderation." About sex she said: "Twice a week, and no more, in a year, a hundred times and four."
Capitalism is the same, too much of a good thing can be bad! We've experienced that since Reagan. Capitalism has run amok and only the "bigly capitalists" have prospered leaving the working class WAY behind! Now, to combat the extra money being paid to, say, McDonalds workers, Mickey D's is going robotic!
Trump says giving lower taxes will cause employers to give more to its employees ....WHAT A LAUGH! They'll spend more on robotics because they don't give a DAMN about anything but enriching their capitalistic asses! About their bottom line on Wall Street! FK America and its taxes, anyway!
Capitalism is a great thing, until it get's abused. Today, capitalism that built America, is destroying it! We NEED to CONTROL it somewhat ... or end up sold to the highest bidder!
Capitalism is the same, too much of a good thing can be bad! We've experienced that since Reagan. Capitalism has run amok and only the "bigly capitalists" have prospered leaving the working class WAY behind!
Alofri, capitalism isn't a good thing which has run amok. This is a myth proliferated by the very elitists you are disparaging. Capitalism is designed to give the result you describe. How can it be any different if the product of your labour is enjoyed by someone else? It simply is not logical to suppose that your life will improve much if you are only receiving ten percent of the profit from the hard work that you do. Everybody above you in the pecking order is piggybacking off your labour. That's the reality of capitalism.
Your confusion in the above post is based on false notion that value derived from labor. Marx was not the only one to operate on a labor theory of value, but his following are the only ones who haven’t adjusted their view to fit reality in light of better theories. This, in part, is why Communist can’t manage an economy. They don’t understand economics.
Furthermore, if no one else is enjoying the fruits of your labor, then you’re unproductive or a hermit. The only thing worse than being “exploited” is not.
Your confusion in the above post is based on false notion that value derived from labor.
Lmao. So the value of my labour is not equivalent to the value of my labour? You are an idiot, Amarel. Literally the only thing you know how to do is contort language and then use it to attack people with.
Marx was not the only one to operate on a labor theory of value
He was not the only one who believed the value of someone's labour is equivalent to the value of their labour? Well, that's refreshing to hear. Thanks for that, mate.
They don’t understand economics.
And yet they had the most powerful economy in the world for half a century. Until approximately the same time they started fighting a war with America. Weird.
The value of your labor depends on what you’re producing and who your selling to. If it had value simply because it’s labor, you could dig worthless holes all day and get rich.
If you believe communists propaganda, they had the greatest economy right up to the moment they collapse.
The value of your labor depends on what you’re producing and who your selling to.
You are once again trying to contort language. The value of the labour changes, correct. What does not change is that I am entitled to one hundred percent of that value. If you only give me ten percent, and keep ninety for yourself, then that isn't a fair system.
If you believe communists propaganda
Oh please just shut up. I've never been anywhere near a communist country in my life. It's called going to university and reading books you sophist clown. I don't need to be a communist to tell you the problems with capitalism. I just need to be reasonably intelligent and honest.
What does not change is that I am entitled to one hundred percent of that value
Of course you are, and you can keep it. But you’ll be much better off if you trade some of that value in exchange for things that are worth more to you than to the other party.
I just need to be reasonably intelligent and honest
If that’s what you need then you are shit out of luck.
It's changed since Reagan. Before that, the middle class was flourishing (as well as the upper class), That was good capitalism. Now, it has run amok and only the "bigly capitalists" are making money. If that is the "reality" of capitalism, as I said, too much of a good thing can be bad! Capitalists make money on the hard work of others. THEY make the easy money! A fair share with those who have the skills or talents would make capitalism great ... for everyone! Capitalism for the FEW is like government for the few! It's NOT what Democracy is about!
It's changed since Reagan. Before that, the middle class was flourishing (as well as the upper class)
There is absolutely some truth to this, but capitalism follows the path of time, and time is never static. The middle class was forced to continue competing with the upper class and that is why it collapsed.
Also, I would add, that this dynamic was generally just the White population that was flourishing and was coming at the expense of minority races (predominately black) and the lower-class. Furthermore, this economic flourishing had everything to do with the structure of the world post-WWII which gave the US a unique economic advantage and control of its competitors on the world stage with Europe half ruined through war and then monetary debt (the US was very aware of this and took advantage of the opportunity). So, one cannot argue a system is successful if it is by design only "successful" because it is profiting off the backs of others (in the format I outlined above).
There is a big difference between invention, and development and distribution.
I think we would have better conversations if you would just read what I write, instead of adding things into it that I do not write. I discuss development and distribution, but you don't catch that that is different from invention.
That is because I only meant development and distribution.
Why bother arguing against things I did not say?
By your own logic computers could not have been invented without the discovery of electricity, and that happened in 17th century Europe
Actually the first reprogrammable computer was not electric. Konrad Zuse invented the first reprogrammable computer in 1945, and it was mechanical. Despite when it was invented, only cash rich institutions had computers until the mid 1970s, but capitalists invested in the production of transistors and later the microchip, and made investments in development, applied economies of scale, and ultimately made devices small enough and cheap enough that ordinary people could afford them in the US by the late 1980's in the US and Western Europe, when previously, only governments and resource rich institutions could afford them.
There is a big difference between whether a few institutions in the world have something (e.g., computers in 1959) and whether those things are distributed to upwards of 5 billion people.
The Soviets had the same (or more advanced) computer technology during the same period, but did not even begin to be able to distribute computers to the people by the fall of the USSR. In fact, distribution of cars, and even food was problematic in the USSR. After the fall of the USSR, and the subsequent institution of capitalism, it took less than 3 decades to distribute that technology widely throughout formerly Soviet nations.
Plumbing was invented long before the middle ages, and in some places, like medieval Britain, it was known to feudal rulers. However, it was not further distributed among the nobility, peasantry, or serfs. It was not until the mechanisms of capitalism made it profitable for people to invest in development, use and distribution of methods for mass production of plumbing supplies, and the subsequent sale and distribution of indoor plumbing systems and fixtures etc. to ordinary people that it became commonplace in the industrialized world.
Capitalism's DEMONSTRATED ability to distribute en masse products like food, cars or computers and indoor plumbing to the people certainly has a track record of doing better than feudalism or communism.
What proven system do you recommend as being more effective than capitalism at distribution of goods and services, like food, cars, or computer technology and plumbing”.
technology to enable more people to come in contact with it, and then use it to develop other related technologies?
You often criticise Islam Marcus, but the problem is that Muslims invented clocks and maps. So again, using your own logic, you can't criticise Islam because without it you wouldn't know where you are or what time of day it is.
Do you know the Chinese had water clocks 1400 years before Mohammed, and the Greeks & Romans had clocks 800 years before Mohammed. The Chinese had maps at least by 1000 years before Mohammed. Sure, some Muslim made the innovation of the pendulum, but innovation is distinct from invention.
Also, you inexplicably fail to see that my acknowledgement that Islam as written in the Quran and Hadith, and as practiced by at least 300 million Muslims is intolerant of other ways of living and thinking has nothing to do with whether or not maps or clocks are useful.
You also ignored my previous statements that not all Muslims believe this hyper-intolerant brand of Islam.
There is a big difference between invention, and development and distribution.
Please stop being absurd, Marcus. Firstly, I don't appreciate you changing your intended argument simply because I illustrated that it is nonsense. That is dishonest and it makes arguing with you a pointless chore. Secondly, your argument that nothing could be distributed or developed without capitalism is equally as stupid as your marginally different prior argument that nothing could be invented without capitalism. The Soviet Union had many ships and planes with which to distribute things and many scientists with which to develop ideas. Stop thrashing a dead argument you delusional wazzock. Trade predates capitalism by tens of thousands of years. Every solitary social system (that I know about) employs trade.
Actually the first reprogrammable computer was not electric. Konrad Zuse invented the first reprogrammable computer in 1945
I am just as capable of copy/pasting from Wikipedia as you are, thank you very much. Stop deflecting important points with pointless semantic attacks targeting my use of words. Modern computers require electricity.
You are a delusional bonehead if you believe technological evolution, distribution of goods or development of ideas does not happen in the absence of capitalism. Frankly, is there any aspect of human progress which you don't believe capitalism is singularly responsible for?
Do you know the Chinese had water clocks 1400 years before Mohammed, and the Greeks & Romans had clocks 800 years before Mohammed.
Do you know that these water clocks don't tell the time, you pointless clown? They measure the flow of time in the exact same way a sandglass does. It mentions this in the very same article you got your information from, if only you had the intelligence to properly interpret what you read.
If you want to get technical about it, then the article also says the Babylonians had sun dials 5,200 years before the Chinese had "water clocks". And in case you were not aware, neither the ancient Chinese nor the Babylonians were capitalists, so how about you stay on fucking topic?