CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
God has a Kingdom and subjects, when Lucifer and other angels fell God judged the law breakers. Everything God does is judicial and contractual. He has to execute judgment because the integrity of Himself and the Kingdom and also for those who have already been judged.
I'm trying to encourage you in your good points and discourage you from things you get carried away in and go off base away from God's word, so please take this with a grain of salt.
If you take God at His word He gives you wisdom. His word is the guide, your understanding of contracts and legal processes is not the guide.
It is true that God executes justice and shows His legal right to forgive and pardon guilty sinners, and to hold unrepentant sinners in Hell's torments forever but to figure this out on human reasoning based on contracts and legal process is backwards theology. The word of God is the basis of truth. If you want to try to draw people in to the reality of God's word using legal processes it might work but you have to guard against reasoning that is subjective to human conditions rather than held to the standard of God's word. That's where you go off in a lot of your teaching, putting in all kinds of goofy allegories with wording which is out of line with the legality of God's word.
Here is one video of The Harbinger author talking about the events surrounding the 9/11 attack. He probably misses a lot of the points he set forth is his book "The Harbinger". Most members of congress have listened to him speak and read his book.
I read that sermon in small book form, I have it here somewhere. I was pleasantly surprised to find he uses much the same wording and reasoning as myself in trying to get people to see the necessity of and reality of Hell and their need to be saved from it. There are one, maybe three, phrases he uses I don't quite agree with as I remember, but most of it is very clear and Biblically sound.
I believe it is called the greatest sermon that was ever preached, they say men gripped the backs of the pews turning white knuckled in fear and anger as they tried to resist the truth in the preaching....and hundreds or thousands repented of their sin, believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and got saved.
Also if I recall Edwards was the key preacher which brought The Great Awakening and/or the Walsh Revival. I believe only another Great Awakening can stop the slide of America into oblivion and return us to the nation we were when George Washington with an assembly of national statesmen dedicated our country to God on the church grounds which later became Ground Zero for the Twin Towers.
If you want to see some signs of warning from God for America, look up The Harbinger. The facts of events and history around the attack on the Twin Towers makes my hair stand on end. God is clearly warning America against it's ungodly ways.
We prophesy in part. Enlightening is often in part for us.
We need precision and accuracy absolutely. Because God is serious and purposeful. And every jot and tittle is purposeful. But we know also we prophesy in part.
Likely because the Spirit uses each of us to enlighten each bother. So the many parts are brought together to see clearly with Him in the midst of 2 or 3.
Which is the number for "bearing witness." "By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses" these references seem to be a representation or reference to " beating witness" We need 2 or 3 witnesses, and rmthe Spirit and the word to bear witness to every fact.
Doctrines of men stifle snd quench the Spirit.
Thats why we need to be one without divisions, with discernment, taking every word and praying and studying to see if it is accurate for the time of revealing.
Not everything is meant to be revealed to every generation.
Thats why in Daniel, He says knowledge increases...
Its speaking of both man's advancements (*obviously true knowledge, not their foolish myths like evolution!) In obedience, as one body, subbmitting one to another in humility, by doing so allow the Spurit and the word to speak and lead. NOT the doctrines of men.
Doctrines of mem is adding and/or taking away from His word. So really "doctrines" or "theories" should be on a confirmation shelf. And NEVER become the final authority! His word is the FINAL authority!
Doctrines of men that are made the "final authority" will cause stumbling, and the stone to crush you. "Its the death sentence by "stoning."
We need to walk closely in the Spirit, and discern increasing knowledge as the Spirit reveals to us at the "appointed time" of revealing. (It is like Israel following Cloud by day and Fire by night)
Which take note, we need to start putting down man's limitations of doctrines. And start putting things on a confirmation shelf, and weigh in the Spirit in prayer and study, and ask God to to show us through His lense, The Spirit and the Word!
That is His bearing witness. God is Judicial!
He may show one a part, and that one should present well to the body, ir to a few, so we all can see a bigger part.
Like example: God showed me there are two tracks for His people. The Covenant with Israel, and the Covenant with the Church. And He is beinging them together in the final act.
If Israel would have seen at any time over the last 2000 years, they would have escaped the final discipline of the Lord.
But they remained veiled, so the Gospel went forth to complete the Gentiles.
Israel was chosen as examples and custodians of His word.
In faithfulness and precision. Its their contract.
Ours contract is death to the world, not living our lives till death, and the Great Commision.
Well as God moved through time He kept faithful place holders in Israel to keep His word according to His contract and to maintain the remnant of Israel over the time they are in period of non-disclosure.
Those were vessels of honor, and they will receive a "prophets reward" and a "righteous man's reward"
Matthew 10: 41 KJV
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
God is Judicial and fair. They will be among the righteous and the reveal.
The Jewish kid and other rabbis are commisioned to prep Israel to strengthen and wake up to the original Covenant with all their heart.
Because only those faithful to TORH in their heart and practice Mitzvah will be part of the 144000 spoken of in Revelation. I am not totally clear on who they are or all they do. But I do think they are literally "Jews."
And they will be ones faithful to the integrity of the word and the mitzvah that God commanded them. Because all that abandoned in their hearts the command of God, and who refuse to wake up, will be counted among the wicked.
So right now for the 1st time, the Jews searching the scriptures through eyes of Judaism are looking at the 2nd Coming as the 1st Coming. And Christians are looking through eyes of Messiah the 2nd Coming. But we have to support the remnant in God's purpose also.
They will be getting Jews ready for the reveal of Messiah. The veil be lifted.
So we have to understand these two separate works of God, as He brings all things to conclusion. And as He subjects all things, and then finally establishes His Kingdom. And the sign in the sky, is God warning of timing.
Its merely a wake up call to BOTH sets of His people. And its NOT "astrology" or "divination" And it IS meant for us to study through the eyes of the Spirit and the Word!
And we are supposed to be blowing trumpets and getting the Church ready for the 2nd Coming which is also a reveal to us! Because we will see Him as He is also! Since now we only "see through glass darkly."
1 Corinthians 13:11-13 KJV
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 John 3: 2 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
I can't read these long posts, especially when you start them by throwing out things like "Enlightening is often in part for us". To be saved is to be enlightened, having the Light of the world shined into and shining in your soul. You don't get enlightened in part. You have a bad habit of misusing words and stretching the meanings of words so that the way you say things is not in line with the word of God.
All I'm doing is pointing out the doctrinal errors in things you say. It's so obvious, you should just say, "yes, you're right, I was mistaken, I'll be more careful and I sure won't say goofy non-biblical worldy things like "we are supposed to walk as the church and complete each other".
Nothing you say is obvious. And you are incorrect.
Yo need to learn how to read. Or you need to check your theology.
I understand your doctrines and your God box is a galden calf. Im not interested in limiting God to your box, and check your foundation. Thats the message to all called by His name.
And when we are discussing the word regarding unfolding prophes, it should be a unified effort and follow the cloud by day and fire by night. But you are there at your golden calf.
I obviously do not follow what people passionately believe.
And not everything is to be dismissed because of increasing light!
If you do, you can get into trouble and stumble.
Because you judge the bretheren, and are not adhering to the understanding we prophesy in part.
And follow the Spirit for times of more revealing, and the days portion of manna.
We all need to start listening to the Spirit, and judge foundations,! Not judge bretheren during the Spirit's process of revealing. Which is following the Spirit to His revealings at the appointed time, and as He unfolds revelation.
Anybody who claims to prophecy and is not 100 percent accurate in every thing say say as prophetic is a liar and if you want to uphold them as servants of God, fine, go ahead, God can still use them to spread the gospel.
The test of a prophet is 100 percent accuracy and in the Old Testament if a prophet failed to be 100 percent accurate they were to be killed. Today if we find a person claiming to "prophecy" and the tiniest thing they said would happen does not come to pass they are to be counted as liars and should not be upheld as leaders for Christians.
Your favorite Thai boy prophecy guy is making some pretty definite predictions saying the signs in the stars indicate this or that will happen within certain years. If it happens the way he is predicting, wonderful. If not, the guy should be ignored. I have seen many like him come and go with the things they predicted failing to happen and that is why I don't pay much attention to any of them anymore. The Bible teaches us to serve God, to be holy, to spread the gospel, to love the Church, there is very little attention given to studying signs and there is no reason we should give a lot of attention to signs.
I do believe God is clearly warning America and there are signs that we are in the last days and very near to the rapture of the Church but I'm not going to pay much attention to people who claim to be prophesying or to have special insights on prophecy. To me they are nothing more than curiosities which may stir some interest but much more often they bring mockery on Christianity when their predictions fail.
I didnt say prophesy as in saying something will come to pass and it doesnt ... .
Prophesy to edify is a sharing o f the Spirit. We are supposed to edifying and building up the body.
Not having church on Sundays. We are supposed to walk as the church and complete each other. Instead the church thinks its separate from each other. Not separate from the world.
1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
.
1 Corinthians 12
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Quoting you, you might want to rethink this and get your thoughts and words in line with God's word.
Here's the quote, then I will give you correct Bible doctrine you might want to pay attention to so you thoughts and expressions get straightened out and the things you say line up with God's word...then there will be more power in your efforts as it comes from the word of God.
Your quote " We are supposed to walk as the church and complete each other."
We do not "walk as the church and complete each other". We are complete in Christ.
Colossians 2:10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Sinners do not complete each other. Each believer is complete in Christ. This is a fact, plain and simple, and when you say things like "we are supposed to walk as the church and complete each other", you are teaching heresy.
All I'm doing is pointing out the doctrinal errors in things you say. It's so obvious, you should just say, "yes, you're right, I was mistaken, I'll be more careful and I sure won't say goofy non-biblical worldy things like "we are supposed to walk as the church and complete each other".
Are you led by His Spirit at all? You are mean in a flesh way.
I tell people truth and factually give them scriptures.
You call them names! And ypu responses of a carnal nature.
You seem more angry and bitter than actually delivering them from darkness to light.
You tell me they are worth nothing and will never come yet you mud wrestle with them and tell them no information on how to actually come!
Are they your punching bags for a bad day?
Is that Gods gift to you a place you can slap people since they are not coming anyway in your mind.
I keep my patience with you so often. But yo are a bitter root that needs to be weeded and you need to start fresh my friend.
Because you left the Spirit somewhere maybe you should retrace your steps and find where you strayed away.
Revelation 2: 4-10 King James Version (KJV)
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
I"m being nice telling you the truth. If you can't handle it that's not my problem. You're going off in tangents contrary to the word of God and it will hinder your effectiveness and leaves you open for problems you can do without.
I kinda find you funny but I know you could be more effective and are bringing problems on yourself with your attitude and like many others I know who struggle with errors they are mixed up in, believe it or not my attitude toward them and you is compassion.
If I tell you less than the truth, you might like me better but gaining your approval would be gratuitous, self-elevating, and apathetic toward you....actually hateful, not really caring about you at all.
And another thing I am very clear on salvation and the foundation of our faith. I am offensively clear, BUT its actually the word of God that offends them. Not my own.
I give mostly scripture..
You offend them by your argumentative flesh!
I hardly ever see scriptures in your posts!
And honestly if they are a waste of time what are yo doing arguing w them?
I reason with people with truth and the word and try to show them the logic on reasoning and the the solid evidence of His word.
You just argue!
And I was explaining what they should see in the curch!
In what post have I ever told people they were part of the kingdom
I guess you read my posts as well as you read the Bible.
Take 1 think in oppositition of EVERYTHING i ever said, and botch it!
The devil gave "mostly scripture" when he tempted Jesus in the wilderness. When I speak of doctrinal issues, I am extremely careful about the wording and the things I say to be sure they line up with the Bible, and in English that is the King James Bible.
You reason with people according to your own feelings unapologetically careless about what the Bible says which contradicts things you say and the way you say them, claiming God gives you all this insight on this or that so who needs the Bible?
I just quoted you Colossians 2:10 showing how it is totally contrary to your teaching on how you think believers complete each other, that concept is nowhere in the Bible, it's a twisted concept suiting your own feelings and you should admit it was wrong of you to say what you did about walking as the church to complete each other.
It's rare that I can make it through an entire post of yours as they are generally ten times longer than I can bear after you use some crazy ideas in the first two lines acting like your wording is as good as scripture....and then you throw out all kinds of red herring scriptures ignoring your own heresies going off in different directions. You need to get a grip on your emotions and bring your thinking in subjection to the scripture instead of trying to bring everybody into subjection to your personal hobby horse way of saying things however you feel like saying them.
I do not support this website as it is from the Emerging Church movement led by people who are full of money grubbing and heretical teaching problems........one of the worst corrupting influences in churches today is Acts 29 Network/Emerging Church which tries to blend New Age Hinduism and Christianity but this is the best and simplest list of facts from The Harbinger I have found.
America's leaders actually quoted Isaiah 9:10 in speeches related to 9/11, not realizing that they were speaking judgment on their own nation. They did this on three separate occasions, including the day after 9/11 by the Senate majority leader. "By the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established." (Deuteronomy 19:15)
Some bricks that fell from the Twin Towers took down a sycamore tree on grounds adjacent to Ground Zero.
The roots of the tree became a memorial and a symbol of defiance.
A cedar tree was planted in its place.
A hewn stone was symbolically placed at the site of Ground Zero, accompanied by a ceremony.
Biblically, judgment tends to take place where the original covenant (agreement) took place.
When the United States began, New York City was its capital.
On April 30, 1789, George Washington became President and the first official government was established at Federal Hall (at Wall Street). On that day, Washington declared: "The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself hath ordained."
After his inauguration, Washington lead a procession of his government to a little stone church just blocks away to pray a blessing on the nation. The entire nation had received a pronouncement to attend church and pray for the country at the same time.
The church where they prayed was at the site of 9/11 - the only small building in close proximity that was left standing after the collapse of the towers. The sycamore tree was in the church yard. The church is now a museum of sorts.
At the time of the inauguration the church grounds extended through the site of the twin towers.
When the towers fell, the impact was felt for miles; the foundation of the old Federal Hall was cracked by the force.
The Founding Fathers recognized that the United States would only be blessed and protected by God if the nation obeyed His commands.
God is a God of order and uses specific days to convey a message.
On a specific day (the 29th day of the Hebrew month Elul) every seven years the Jewish nation was commanded to release all debt, It was called "The Lord's release" or "Shemitah."
The greatest single stock market crash in Wall Street history, up to that time, took place on the 29th day of Elul - September 17, 2001.
Seven years later to the day, in the Jewish calendar (the 29th of Elul again), on September 29th, 2008 that record was beaten as the stock market plunged again. It fell 7 percent in one day. It dropped 777 points, precisely 7 years from the previous event by the Jewish calendar on the day of "Shemitah."
You owe God a debt for your sin. He paid that debt for you with His own blood. The debt is owed to God. Are you really as stupid as you act? You either believe He took your sin on Himself and paid for it so you can be forgiven of you pay for it yourself in Hell. That's the way it is.
Satan does not rule over Hell. Satan is doomed to Hell, and people there will look on him and see him powerless, nothing more than themselves. It is a deception of the devil to make you believe he has power in Hell.
In Hell, at the name of Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue will confess to the glory of God the father that Jesus Christ is Lord. Those knees in Hell will bow against their will, those tongues will say Jesus is Lord against their will. That is the only time God will violate free will as He deserves honor from His creatures for creating them, He will get from them what He created them for, honor and glory He deserves from His creatures as He is the creator of all things.
You are fighting a losing battle and will lose your soul in Hell and never know any pleasures of the power of your free will again. If you want to continue letting the devil lead you in lies to Hell, enjoy while you can because you won't enjoy it in Hell and Satan knows he will have no pleasure their, being tormented by his sin forever.
You are a dead man walking, spending time on death row and you owe God a debt for every moment, a debt which is accumulating steadily to finality of dying when you will be executed forever if you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell.
If you say the death of the Son of God was "a minor material death", your death will be nothing but forever in the fire of Hell. You're being an idiot, adding sin on top of sin and worse you are trying to lead others by feigning authority of intellect and making yourself accountable for everybody who you encourage to strengthen their resolve against God.
You are dead now, just a walking talking dead man, separated from God in death by your sin, empty of life, nothing but dying is yours and your words against God are evil, you are evil, you're on your way to Hell. God loves you and will save you if you repent of all your sin and believe on His Son, but I doubt you care or ever will. I think you are going to wake up in Hell.
Why doesn't Satan deserve the same honor as God? Are you kidding? Why does a created thing deserve the same honor as the Creator? The Creator is the only one who deserves honor, any talent or power or possession of a created thing is a gift from the Creator and the Creator deserves all of the honor for anything the creature has, does, or owns. The only way the Creator can be honored by sin is by the fact that He conquered it when He died for it and rose from the dead in victory over it, and for sin to be confined, contained, and consumed by the fire of Hell and causing the knees of sinners to bow in Hell at the sound of the name of Jesus while their tongues confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and God will get from all of His creatures the honor He is due.
Apparently when God gave Himself as a sacrifice for your sin, that material death makes no difference regarding your eternity other than it justifies Him keeping you in the fire of Hell forever.
Death could not hold God in the ground. It's holding you by the law of sin and death, you are captive to death, dying forever and you can't get yourself out of it. Death will not only hold you, it will keep you in Hell where sin belongs.
I don't care if you ban me or not, it's you who is unable to face and accept the truth. Your simple equation is stupid, while you pretend like you have all the questions which cannot be answered. You put forth evil twisted ideas and when I show that you are being stupid pretending to be intelligent, you are a fool. You are doing all you can to avoid the truth because you love darkness and your deeds are evil.
You try to spread confusion because you are confused. The truth cuts through the confusion. It is you who is being random in your confusion, it is you who is refusing to recognize truth.....it is your pride in which you are sure to fall into the fire of Hell if you will not repent of all your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Keep boasting how smart and strong you are and see where it gets you, if that's the way you want to go out and apparently it is....so go for it.
Ideally, I should ban you because now you've turned an entire moron. But that'd be forcing you to not answer anything, what you're doing already, though. I'm still not going to - that'd be equivalent to behaving like you, and thus the cost is simply not worth it.
But it seems like you're forcing me to by posting such random fluff everywhere. Don't worry - you're the main attraction for this debate.
Now, I ask again, with meanings I've clarified already (even though it was obvious), what difference does a minor material death make against eternity?
You are in death, on death row, in condemnation, awaiting final execution of your dying, being banished by God forever separated from the living in the fire of Hell.
You are paying the price for your own sins since you reject what the Savior did for you when He paid in your place the debt you owe to God.
You banning me from this discussion does not matter to me, I'm saved and I will be with the living forever, the Living God and those who have been redeemed from the penalty of sin which is Hell, redeemed by His blood which satisfies His wrath against sin.
You are in reality banning yourself out of life, propelling yourself in your vaunted mind like a moth flying high into the flames. You're on your way to Hell and I don't care if you ban me before you get there, I would much rather have you here playing your silly little mind games than know you left this world dead in your sins and are in Hell unrepentant and frying like a worm on a grill.
, what difference does a minor material death make against eternity?
This is a stupid question, you are asking what difference your own death makes....apparently no difference other than you will be passed from the first death which you are in now into the second death which is unending in the lake of fire.
You think you are so stinking smart, you won't think you are smart if you will not repent of your sin and you wake up in Hell paying the price of your sin moment by moment, forever separated from God by your own choice of elevating yourself in pride against the Holy One.
You probably have not been questioned much ever. Don't worry about that position, you can follow it with us. We do have many atheists who don't have to be questioned much. And your life will be more significant - you will represent a number for progress of humanity.
The question is, why does your God want to punish us for eternity due to lives that would be equivalent to a flash for him?
You're the one who has not questioned his beliefs. The fact that you are hard headed only shows you are as dumb as a rock. The problem is your twisted reasoning born of and dependent on confusion believing lies. It's not my fault you wont' apply yourself to find the truth. I have told you the truth.....you don't want it because of your pride, and your pride is going to take you down to Hell in your sin.
Oh, so there is absolutely no chance you'll be saying that.
Not even if you were to be tortured otherwise? And then recorded in history as the greatest abominations ever?
We now have methods of torture much more effective (and expensive) than even crucifixion (along being burned.) (Surely cheaper alternatives could be arranged.)
Those questions are too absurd and idiotic like the normal things you say, to be worth any consideration.
You've no idea how effective tortures are possible. And since health is no consideration, how cheap they'll be.
Because fear is the most basic emotion. It wouldn't be surprising if you were to die merely of fear. But you won't - that can be achieved using pain and other methods to overclock your senses.
If it turns into reality, then you'll be worshipping whatever I want you to, in bulk.
What do you think? Will you then say that your God is worthless? And that such a deity ought to be merely imagination?
After all, that's congruent to what he decided as justice. And you worship him, right?
Those questions are simple questions which you are afraid to ask of yourself. Devil minds and fools like you have said the same twisted reasoning in all your points hundreds of times with me. It's all parrot/broken record nonsense. I answer all your questions though you try to use as much confusion and rhetoric as you can.
The truth is that you are the one who has not questioned his own beliefs. I put out a few simple questions and you hide like Chicken Little.
The questions I presented call into question your beliefs. You don't have any rational explanation for your beliefs or you would answer the questions. I think you know you cannot answer the questions rationally, and that's why you dismiss them and avoid questioning your own beliefs.
Your problem is pride, you think you are smarter and better than God and you cannot stand, your falling, your losing, and your on your way to Hell and you won't like it in the tiniest way at any moment when you get there.
Why won't God let you live? Why is God allowing you to die? Is it temporary or permanent? What have you done to deserve death?
Do you think God owes it to you to let you off the hook?
Answer the questions. Show you have questioned your own belief.
I will worship God because He is the Creator of all things and is the only One worthy of my worship. I will worship Him freely and joyfully knowing what He did for me to save me from Hell.
You worship your own mind and it's empty of life. All you have is dying and you can't think or talk your way out of it....and it's all you're going to have in the fire of Hell but nothing good from God there as you have good things not, nothing to make the misery of your twisted mind more tolerable as you tolerate your confusion now.
You're an idiot. All of the apostles except John were executed in horrible ways for refusing to renounce their faith in the resurrected King of Creation after they saw Him die on the cross. The torture you seem to enjoy inflicting is happening in many places around the world today against Christians and they will not renounce the Savior no matter how much they are tortured. You are the one who has nothing real to stand for, you are the one who will bow under pressure and do as you are told. You're going to wake up in Hell, you refuse to question your own beliefs, apparently not as smart as you pretend to be, wasting my time.
Who are you trying to convince, really? You're trying to convince yourself by spouting nonsense and avoiding questioning your own beliefs. You're only fooling yourself.
Your beliefs are nonsensical, that's why you cannot answer the questions. If you answer the questions incorrectly I will expose your beliefs as nonsense, self-destruction, amounting to nothing but death which is going to be forever in the lake of fire if you wont' repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Answer the questions according to you beliefs or you are a coward pretending to be intelligent.
I can shuffle between systems of beliefs. Since you want me to include a deity so badly, deism it is.
Why won't God let you live? Why is God allowing you to die?
Because he doesn't care. About anything that happens here. He is too perfect to interfere with us.
Is it temporary or permanent?
Permanent.
What have you done to deserve death?
Being born into a world where he decided death to be.
Do you think God owes it to you to let you off the hook?
He doesn't owe anything to anyone. I'll go to the same oblivion as idiots like you, sadly. Because he doesn't care.
Also, the materialist answer would be that the questions are as absurd as everything you say. The way they are asked, dismissing them is the only rational thing to do.
If God is at fault, not caring, how can He be "too perfect". You are accusing Him of being imperfect. You are either perfect or you are not perfect. Perfect can't be too perfect because it is perfect. There is no such thing as "too perfect". You are using some kind of double-talk to confuse the question. Is God perfect or not?
Yes death is permanent and you are in it now. You are under the curse of death, permanent unless God gets you out of it.
How do you know it was God who decided death would be in the world? And why would He want death in the world when He could just remove every living thing from the world?
Can you define the "oblivion" you intend to go to? And how are you going to get there? How do you know you are not there now?
You did answer correctly that God does not owe anything to anyone....but you seem to think He owes it to you to let you off the hook and give you your "oblivion" without punishment.
Perfect can't be too perfect because it is perfect. There is no such thing as "too perfect". You are using some kind of double-talk to confuse the question. Is God perfect or not?
We still can use degrees of perfection, though. Yes, he is perfect, entirely.
unless God gets you out of it.
He won't. Our consciousness isn't built to survive eternity.
Can you define the "oblivion" you intend to go to? And how are you going to get there? How do you know you are not there now?
Oblivion = non-existence. We'll be going there when our being ends, when what builds us ceases its function. Currently, I can be sure that I exist, because I can directly feel it.
He owes it to you to let you off the hook and give you your "oblivion" without punishment.
I'm rather considering that he doesn't owe to punish anyone.
How do you use "degrees of perfection"? How much imperfection causes a perfect thing to be imperfect? How many drops of poison does it take before the water is polluted?
God won't get you out of dying? That's understandable since you hate Him. How do you know you do not exist forever? Do you want to not exist? How do you know you get out of existence in death? How do you know you exist now? Are you sure that you exist, or do you think maybe you are nothing but a pigment of your imagination?
Ohhhhh, oblivion is non-existence. How can you be going "there" if it does not exist?
"when what builds us ceases it's function? What builds you, and how did it build you?
Doesn't God owe it to Himself to condemn His creatures who are in rebellion against Him like you are now?
No, He does not owe you anything, that's correct. He does not owe you time, He does not owe you air, He does not owe Hell to you, He does not owe you any respect, He does not owe life to you. Why should He not punish you when you are insulting Him and breaking His law? Oh, there we are again at the question of your innocence or guilt. Are you innocent so you do not deserve punishment?
you are nothing but a pigment of your imagination?
Anyone more rational than you would see that it is absurd.
How do you use "degrees of perfection"? How much imperfection causes a perfect thing to be imperfect? How many drops of poison does it take before the water is polluted?
I can answer them, of course, but I don't think it is any relevant.
That's understandable since you hate Him
It's rather your idiotic idea that I hate. If the God wants to interfere with our afterlife, then I'll be rewarded appropriately.
Do you want to not exist?
That's the ultimate basis of all your stupid religious ideas.
How do you know you get out of existence in death? How do you know you exist now?
I know you're not smart enough to notice, but I've answered them. I can be giving over 5 types of answers easily, and you can't refute any of them. Or, I can have millions of answers at my disposal, and you'll still be speaking the same nonsense and thinking someone might actually believe it.
Also, I could make it all better easily than you in your best moments.
So, I'd recommend that you make that worthless material in your skull work a little, even though that'll paralyse you for a decade or so.
Doesn't God owe it to Himself to condemn His creatures who are in rebellion against Him like you are now?
It is a worthless deity who wants to compete with mortals in its own universe. God is perfect, why would he owe anyone to punish any of us?
Oh, there we are again at the question of your innocence or guilt.
Oh, come on.
Are you innocent so you do not deserve punishment?
Innocent against what? You idea of a God? If he turns out to be real (he won't), then I'm fucked. But, I'm still betting on a rational God.
Do you want to go out of existence? What are you waiting for; more suffering?
Again you avoid questions about your silly idea of "degrees of perfection". Saying you can answer them when it's obvious that your statements about "degrees of perfection" is nonsensical is nothing more than dodging to avoid facing the futility of your beliefs....hoping to go out of existence in death is belief in futility.
How do you know you have an after-"life" to live, and not an after-"dying" to die? How do you know you are not in afterlife now, dying as your innocence is gone?
You have not explained what makes you think you get to un-exist in death. It's obvious you did not choose to exist, how can you choose to un-exist? Why do you hate life so much that you want to believe you will un-exist in death?
What makes you think God is competing with you? Do you feel you are competing against God? why are you competing against God? what do you hope to win by competing against God?
Again you change a question rather than answer it, then you post the answer to your changed question...the question was "does God not owe it to Himself to punish His creatures who rebel against Him". You changed the question to "why would He owe anyone to punish any of us". That is a straw man argument avoiding the question based on logic...that for God's own good name's sake He owes it to Himself to punish those who are turned (perverted) against Him.
And again you avoid the question of your innocence.....are you innocent or not?
Yes or no. Are you guilty of having done wrong, or are you innocent? Do you deserve to die or not?
If you do not have the mental strength to express yourself without profanity, I'm not going to read your stuff any more and I will repeatedly point out that you fail to answer the questions of your beliefs.
How do you know you have an after-"life" to live, and not an after-"dying" to die?
That doesn't make sense. If you are arguing on me saying 'afterlife' sometime here, then it would have been a metaphor at best, which should have been obvious from the descriptions.
How do you know you are not in afterlife now, dying as your innocence is gone?
I answered that already.
Are you guilty of having done wrong, or are you innocent? Do you deserve to die or not?
Find me a worthy connection between these two questions, and I will give you a direct answer. Until then, I won't be basing it on what seems to me as absolute irrationality.
Again you avoid questions about your silly idea of "degrees of perfection".
I see no scenario in which that would be any relevant. The idea you already have should be good enough. Or, you can form that in the other words such as those I've been using since for your feeble brain.
What makes you think God is competing with you? Do you feel you are competing against God? why are you competing against God? what do you hope to win by competing against God?
You know that you don't deserve more than insult for such idiotic questions, right? I say that God isn't competing with us, and you, like the idiot you are, ask what would I gain by competing with him. Seriously? If God cared about your rationality, then he would have died of shame. But he doesn't. Why would a perfect God care about what puny mortals do?
How is "afterlife" a metaphor when you are dying....wouldn't the correct term be "after dying"? Are you living or are you dying? If you are dying you are not living and if you are living you are not dying, correct? Are you dying or not? You said you hope to get out of existence in death, so doesn't that mean you are dying and have no "afterlife" and after dying is ended here you hope to un-exist?
You have not answered the questions, you are avoiding answering because you are afraid to examine your own beliefs.
What do you mean "find me a worthy connection". The connection is your guilt, the things you are guilty of doing wrong. Are you innocent or are you guilty.
Do you deserve to die or not? The questions are very simple yes or no questions. Why is it so difficult for you to answer? Do you not understand the questions which read around a third grade level? Did you flunk out of school in the third grade so you cannot understand simple questions? Are you innocent? say yes or no or continue avoiding examining your own beliefs. Are you guilty? Say yes of no according to the things you have done wrong...unless of course you claim to have done no wrong and are innocent if you think anybody will believe that.
Do you deserve to die or not. Yes or no. What is so difficult for you? Answer the question or remain a coward afraid to question your own beliefs.
You are the one who brought up "degrees of perfection", at one point saying God is "too perfect". If God is "too perfect", He is not perfect at all because "too perfect" is flawed. Why are you using double-talk instead of answering simple yes or no questions?
You are the one who implied God is competing with you. Insulting me is not answering the question of why you think God competes with people. If you are going to throw out these concepts as arguing points you should be able to logically explain why your points are valid.
You are changing the question again, not answering the question. The question is not about God caring or not caring for you, the question is regarding your assertion that God is competing with you. Why would God compete with you? Are you trying to take His throne? You are making straw man arguments to avoid the direct questioning of your beliefs. Yet it is ironic how your straw man argument brings you to make this statement:
"If God cared about your rationality, then he would have died of shame. But he doesn't. Why would a perfect God care about what puny mortals do"
Did Christ not die shamefully? Was it not a shaming thing to be crucified dying an agonizing slow death on public display?
How can God be perfect if He does not care for you? You ask why a perfect God cares about people? It's because He is perfect that He cares. Your attempt to dance around and avoid the truth fails and actually suggests God does care for you because He is perfect and truth remains while you try to argue against it.
How is "afterlife" a metaphor when you are dying....wouldn't the correct term be "after dying"? Are you living or are you dying? If you are dying you are not living and if you are living you are not dying, correct? Are you dying or not? You said you hope to get out of existence in death, so doesn't that mean you are dying and have no "afterlife" and after dying is ended here you hope to un-exist?
I've given enough descriptions for you to know what I mean. Now, if you are to mix the questions with your delusions, they make even less sense.
You have not answered the questions, you are avoiding answering because you are afraid to examine your own beliefs.
I have, and I probably won't be holding your finger to reason them.
What do you mean "find me a worthy connection".
Say how do the questions make any sense. (With such inability to reason, your religion is probably the best thing where you can belong - I'd have never accepted you as a member if I led a religion.)
Are you guilty?
Guilty? GUILTY OF WHAT? You've been boring me by repeating that moronic question without explaining the irrationalities you seem to so obviously commit to anyone on or above the level of a pigeon.
You are the one who brought up "degrees of perfection", at one point saying God is "too perfect". If God is "too perfect", He is not perfect at all because "too perfect" is flawed. Why are you using double-talk instead of answering simple yes or no questions?
I did say that he is perfect for clarification on that. Going any further in explanations of that is redundant. (I wonder in how many ways I have to say it before someone like you understands.)
You are the one who implied God is competing with you.
Find where I said such a thing. I remember implying clearly that he doesn't compete with us, in reply to your 'he should punish us'. I expected discussion to go that way, but my predictions probably don't work at your level of irrationality.
It's because He is perfect that He cares.
How? Clearly a perfect being would show no weakness and be entirely virtuous. Also, your feel-good arguments are as worthless to me as you are. So I'd recommend you don't attempt it again.
You're the one who said God is perfect. If God does not care for you, He is not perfect.....so is He perfect or not?
You avoid answering questions.
and when I ask if you are guilty, your reply of "guilty of what" seems to indicate you are claiming to be innocent. You know what you did that was wrong, do you not? Are you guilty or not? It's a yes or a no question.
Do you deserve to die or not? another yes or no answer which you seem unable to provide.
Now I can see why you do not seriously question and examine your beliefs......they don't make any sense and you can't admit it.
You are indeed competing with God, trying to be God to yourself rather than letting God be God over you. You are playing a losing game, losing everything, losing your soul to sin, the pleasures of which you love more than life.
You're on your way to Hell, thinking you are smart you are a fool, repeatedly doing things contrary to your own well being is idiocy. Your beliefs are nonsensical, thinking you escape reality in death. Find out for yourself.
You're just a waste of time, wasting your time and going to wake up in Hell soon I do believe and I hope I'm wrong about that but by your own words and attitude I have to believe I am right.
you are nothing but a pigment of your imagination?
Anyone more rational than you would see that it is absurd.
How do you know you are anything other than a pigment of your imagination? How do you know you did not create yourself and are unable to keep yourself alive? If you are not a pigment of your imagination, what are you? You must be a pigment of your imagination of you are going out of existence in death. You are either you forever or you are only a pigment of your imagination which vanishes when you can no longer imagine that you are you.....and that is absurd, is it not? It's your beliefs which are illogical and irrational and you are unable to examine because careful examination of your beliefs shows they are nonsensical.
If you do not exist in death, how can you not be only a pigment of your imagination now? If you will not exist in the future, how can you be sure you exist now?
You can't be a pigment of your imagination, but by claiming you are non-existent in death you are claiming that you are not real now. Of course you can't admit this and must try to change the questions or redirect to avoid the questions......because you are not being honest in examining your beliefs.
I can claim anything, and you won't be able to reasonably object. You'd be an idiot to think that I'm not claiming something in fear of you proving me wrong.
you are claiming that you are not real now.
Don't worry much about that. I know that your beliefs are not founded on any reason. If they are, then what do you exactly mean by 'being real'?
you are nothing but a pigment of your imagination?
Anyone more rational than you would see that it is absurd.
How do you know you are anything other than a pigment of your imagination? How do you know you did not create yourself and are unable to keep yourself alive? If you are not a pigment of your imagination, what are you? You must be a pigment of your imagination of you are going out of existence in death. You are either you forever or you are only a pigment of your imagination which vanishes when you can no longer imagine that you are you.....and that is absurd, is it not? It's your beliefs which are illogical and irrational and you are unable to examine because careful examination of your beliefs shows they are nonsensical.
Your answer which avoids the question: "That's the ultimate basis of all your stupid religious ideas."
Again you show that you either have not examined your own beliefs or you are afraid to admit what your beliefs really imply.
Do you want to go out of existence? Yes or no. Quit trying to weasel out of the question. It's a simple yes or no question. Why do you have so much trouble answering yes or no to simple yes or no questions?
I did answer the question so clearly - if you want there to be an afterlife, then collective idiots like you will make such an afterlife. Yet it isn't surprising for you to say that...
To me, that depends on the afterlife. For the christian one, either heaven or hell, I'd rather not exist.
You did not answer the question at all. Your making a straw man argument avoiding the question.
"Afterlife" is incorrect terminology. After dying would be correct terminology as you are dying now. You believe in non-existence, so how do you know you exist at all? How do you know you are not a pigment of your imagination, and really don't exist at all?
You say "I'd rather not exist". How can you stop existing if you exist? Do you now exist?
With such capacity of a brain, I wonder how it can even properly command your body to do things. (Oh, your soul does, doesn't it? Well, that'd be a strong argument, for it is obvious that your brain can't.)
Yes, it is incorrect terminology. Good to see that you could understand at least that, though nothing beyond.
You sure are shuffling, but your shuffle is withing your beliefs only, trying to avoid the truth. You shuffle a lot.
Shuffling is confusion, that's why they shuffle the deck before the hand is dealt, the game depends on confusion, the same as your game.
Your attempts to answer the questions are full of holes. No wonder you want to dismiss the questions, they expose your nonsensical beliefs.
Being born is not why a person deserves death, when you were born you were innocent. You lost your innocence, that's why you deserve death....unless you claim to be innocent.
whose the idiot? I can answer the questions, apparently your brain does not comprehend enough so you can answer.
Again, are you innocent so you do not deserve to die? Yes or no. It's very simple. I am not innocent, and neither are you, we deserve to die. Is that too difficult of a concept for you to grasp? You have a problem with the truth?
You're on your way to Hell you devil minded fool. You can't win arguing against God, you are going against your own life and paying your own price for your own sins in eternal death, no way out but through God the Savior and you are spitting in His face like an idiot.
This equation is stupid. You are dead in your sins and that death is a spiritual issue......you are separated from God by your sin, you are in death now.
My reply was not random, your equation is based on lies for the purpose of confusion which you seem to love because you are confused and you are tying to convince yourself that you know what you are talking about.
Your stuff is so stupid, you just try to insult Christians and act like you are smarter than God. You're a fool.
Suffering is in the world because of sin which brought death. To allow mankind to reproduce and fulfill God's purpose of creating people glorifying His goodness for Him to enjoy, He had to allow them time in sin and death and sin is the cause of sinners' sufferings. It is by God's mercy that He allows us time we lost the right to when Adam sinned, we were in Adam and bear Adam's sin, we are sinners who do not deserve time. God gave Adam time so we could be here, accepting a sacrificial animal in Adam's place, and covering Adam with the skin of that animal, it's blood was on Adam and evil was in the world through sin holding creation in death's corruption. Suffering is a reminder of our need of God's mercy, and God took it all on Himself when He died for the sins of mankind on the cross so that all who believe on Him, believing from their hearts that He is God and risen from the dead, and asking God in the name of God the Son who died for them to forgive them and by faith receiving the risen Savior as the payment for their sins and He lives in His people today by His Holy Spirit and they have eternal life in Him.
You, devil minded fool, are losing your soul and paying for your own sin in death and there is no place for it but in the fire of Hell and you won't like it in any way if you do not get saved from it before your dying is finalized and you pay the price yourself for your own sin, moment by moment frying like an undying worm in the fire of Hell.
The faith of God is the only faith which is entirely logical and reasonable. Whatever you are hoping in, thinking it or yourself are keeping you out of the fire of Hell, it is a deception designed to keep you in the dark until suddenly you find your dying finalized without remedy and no way out of the fire of Hell where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.
Suffering is the natural consequence of sin. You suffer because you are a sinner and deserve to suffer. It is only by God's mercy that you are given time outside of eternal damnation in the fire of Hell where sin belongs in complete depravity of anything good from God. God promises to relieve all suffering for all who believe on His Son in His resurrection, the One who suffered for them...the innocent One who died for the ungodly and offers forgiveness to them as He is risen from the dead having defeated the power of sin by taking it on His own body and paying it's price in full, so God is satisfied the debt is paid and He will forgive all who trust in Him who died for them.
A child can understand these things, it's not complicated, it's your darkened mind clinging to lies in hope of proving you have the right to sin against God which makes you unable to comprehend the truth.
Satan will inflict suffering on you if he can. He is limited by God or you would be burning in Hell now.
Your suffering is brought on by sin, you deserve it as a sinner. It is the natural consequence of sin, and Satan's desire is for your suffering to increase all the way into the Lake of Fire where it will never end and their will be no relief.
The punishment was created for Satan who has you deceived into think you do not deserve it no have it coming as a sinner. The punishment was not created by you but you are asking for it.
Before Lucifer fell there was harmony in Heaven, uninterrupted never ending joy, peace, love, harmony. Lucifer was one of the highest if not the highest angel with a special place in Heaven and he became proud of himself, desiring honor and worship, desiring to be served by lower angels. Only God deserves honor, glory, service by His creatures as He created them, Lucifer abused his freedom and went against God trying to take what by right belongs to God...all the honor and the glory belongs to God alone. So Lucifer, "The Shining One", turned into "The Adversary", Satan and was cast down from his place, lost his position of honoring God in Heaven and is at war against God now and forever will be. The only way Satan can take anything away from God is by pulling people like you down to Hell with him; people God loves and gave His Son as the sacrifice for their sins to satisfy His justice that their sins are paid for so they can be forgiven and pardoned while God is justified in the resurrection of His Son, after He paid their price in death, to keep them who trust in Him saved and to keep those who defy Him in Hell.
It is you who is not thinking logically. I think you are under heavy influence of demons, I think you are nearly fully possessed of demons and they are trying to destroy you and doing a pretty good job of it.
Are you really that stupid or are you just pretending to be stupid? You have free will and you are in rebellion against God. Satan forced or persuaded a large number of angels to rebel with him, making war with God's holy angels who choose to serve their Creator and refused to join the rebellion of Satan and his angels (who are turned evil; devils).
Do I really have to tell you that all of the angels were created with free will? God created them to enjoy the company of beings with god-like powers of reason and creativity like Himself. They denied God of the pleasure of His company by refusing His right to all honor and glory as the Creator of all things, they chose to seek their own glory and their own honor like you are doing now, trying to promote yourself over the throne of God and deny Him His rightful ownership of that throne. You think you are king of your hill? When your hill is a pile of wet dust drying and crumbling as the heat of Hell's fire warms your soul and you fly in the pleasure of your sin like a moth into the flames?
For a christian, you sure do call people stupid and idiot a lot. You seem a little angry to me. I wonder why you're so afraid. Who put their fears into you?
You have to be stupid to think you can defy God and not end up in Hell, and to do things repeatedly contrary to your own good is idiocy. The names are accurate portrayals of the plight of sinners in rebellion against God who will not listen to God's offer of forgiveness through faith in the blood of His Son.
For a guy who thinks he knows how a Christian is supposed to talk, you seem to be completely ignorant of Jesus who boldly told people in all walks of life and all levels of authority that they were children of Hell, hypocrites, of their father the devil, vipers, whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones, thieves, liars and so forth. They thought He was not a good Christian and they crucified Him because they hated Him for telling them the truth about their sin. You are one of them, of your father the devil, a child of Hell, and you need God's forgiveness to be pardoned of your sin through faith in the resurrected Savior who died for you to save you from Hell. If you will not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ you are a fool and being an idiot and you have to be stupid to think you can defy God and reject His offer of pardon and not end up stuck in the fire of Hell forever.
If God paid you by dying for your sin, it would not cover your sin, you would remain in debt with God never able to pay for your own sin. You still have to pay for your sin.
God did not pay you or the devil or any other people for their sin. God does not owe you anything, never did and never will. You have no right to anything but the fire of Hell as a sinner.
If you want to believe you have the right to exist outside of Hell's torments as a sinner, and you can win against God by blaming Him for your sin, go ahead and believe that and enjoy yourself while you can.
I'd recommend that you quit trying to argue against God because you are losing and will be lost forever in Hell if you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
yeah, yeah. wages of sin = death. so instead god decided to send jesus down to earth to die on a cross so that the whole world can be saved and come live with god in heaven after the rapture. so if you 'trust' god, you'll believe in jesus and go to a heaven that god 'really didn't want you in' to begin with, since he favored the jews in the old testament.
yeah yeah, what makes you think you are justified to live outside of Hell?
I don't know what you are talking about when you say "god". What is "god". Please define "god" as you are using the term so I know what you are talking about.
If you want to talk about God, then make it clear by spelling His name correctly. Otherwise I have to assume you are an atheist who refuses to acknowledge God and you are a waste of time.
For example, thinking that a capital letter in some word captures his deity unlike anything else.
Though I wouldn't go far enough to say that hatred is a necessary and sufficient causal outcome of fear. (Even after implying that it may not be.) Although it would be true in this case, as it seems.
You gained a lot of respect from me with your apology for profanity. The thing I hate is the idea of anybody burning in Hell forever, I do not wish that on you or anybody else....didn't mean to sound hateful, I don't hate anybody, I want everybody to know how much God loves them and how He proved it by what He did for them on the cross and in victory over sin and death to save them from Hell.
I speak strongly on the subject when it seems the resistance is strong, it's an attempt to wake you up. I hope I haven't wasted time trying to get you to see the truth. Often seems a waste of time trying to get people to see the truth, but God knows I try and every moment and word will be accounted for on Judgement Day.....I fear God and pray it's not wasted time. I'm afraid people are going to wake up in Hell when I know they can be saved and have eternal life in Heaven. That's what I'm afraid of. Other than that, nothing really, the worst this world can do to me is to send me home to Heaven.
You people are opposing yourself, God owes you nothing, never has, never will. Going against Him is going against your own life and you are losing it all, losing your soul, and will end up in Hell if you will not repent of all your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, God incarnate who died for you, paid your price so that He can forgive you and be satisfied the price was paid and justice was served so you can be with Him, forgiven, in His resurrection.
You're not thinking rationally if you are against being saved from Hell by the Savior.
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
The debt was not paid to Satan, the debt was not owed to Satan, the debt was owed to God and He satisfied Himself that it was paid in full by His own innocent blood.
God never has and never will owe anything to Satan or to anybody else.
Satan is not the master of sin, he is a slave to his sin. Sin has the mastery over a sinner, and the sinner owes God for every moment of their existence.
There is one master over all, God is the Master of sinners and saints, of devils and angels.
I find it hilarious that you suck so bad at maintaining two accounts that you can't resist logging in under both of them at the same time and posting... Of course you get away with it because most of the people on this site are too stupid to see what's right in front of them. Well played FromWithin, well played.
I have had some pretty strong disagreements with From Within, him and I understand each other well enough and I am not against what he is doing here. I really don't know why you would think him and I are the same person other than you're not very bright.
Sometimes I think maybe some of the screen names are the same person and I really don't care, some of them like Atfag/male and Potty Poluted/female and Fatty Moron who I guess is gender neutral, I know are the same person and I really don't care if they use multiple names. The style and mannerisms of From Within which are different from mine seem pretty obvious to me, few people carry on long as you have thinking him and I are the same person....and if you want to think we are the same person, I really don't care that much. I won't change my stance on the things I disagree with him on and if you think I'm crazy enough to take two sides of an argument for some kind of kicks, that's your problem and not mine......it's you who is crazy insisting From Within and I am the same person. And why should you care anyways? and why should I care what you think? I'm doing you a courtesy trying to help you be realistic but if you don't appreciate that well, I really don't care about that. Most of what From Within says I am in agreement with. People like him and I who believe the Bible is God's word will be in agreement on most things....and I'm sure he agrees with me on not being deceptive about representing one's own character.
I have had some pretty strong disagreements with From Within, him and I understand each other well enough and I am not against what he is doing here. I really don't know why you would think him and I are the same person other than you're not very bright.
Typical FromWithin attack, thank you very much.
Sometimes I think maybe some of the screen names are the same person and I really don't care, some of them like Atfag/male and Potty Poluted/female and Fatty Moron who I guess is gender neutral, I know are the same person and I really don't care if they use multiple names.
Yes, Those are all the same person (Keep that guy away from your children)
The style and mannerisms of From Within which are different from mine seem pretty obvious to me, few people carry on long as you have thinking him and I are the same person....and if you want to think we are the same person, I really don't care that much. I won't change my stance on the things I disagree with him on and if you think I'm crazy enough to take two sides of an argument for some kind of kicks, that's your problem and not mine......it's you who is crazy insisting From Within and I am the same person. And why should you care anyways? and why should I care what you think? I'm doing you a courtesy trying to help you be realistic but if you don't appreciate that well, I really don't care about that. Most of what From Within says I am in agreement with. People like him and I who believe the Bible is God's word will be in agreement on most things....and I'm sure he agrees with me on not being deceptive about representing one's own character.
How many times did you call yourself "From Within" LOL Your lack of a space between From and Within isn't fooling anyone. LMAO! You REALLY suck at this.
That's Nathan Allen the sodomite "LGBT activist". Most of the time I ignore him, I told him repeatedly that his sin will take him to Hell, sodomy is abomination and all sex outside of marriage , homo or hetero is wrong. Nathan throws his little faggotty teen age temper tantrums at me by making up a mockery name and copy and pasting my debates like Courac was doing to From Within. Nathan realized that stuff does not bother me one bit and has not done it in a while.
Nathan tries to tell me he is a Christian while he refuses to say his sexual indulgences and support of sodomites and women abusing their bodies with women is wrong. You can't be a Christian and say sin is ok. All sex outside of marriage which is the merging of one man and one woman to be one flesh in a lifetime commitment is wrong. Nathan is a nasty dirty foul mouth teen age homosexual punk.
Are you smoking crack cocaine or doing meth or something?
Nope! That's you attempting to make everyone believe that. You aren't the biggest Troll this site has ever had, you're not the most entertaining either. But carry on because most people on this site are still buying your bullshit!
Why do you insist on putting a space between 'From' and 'Within'? Huh? LOL, nice try asshole. When you make an attempt at looking daft you lose. Which is it? Either you know it's 'FromWithin' or you're a dumbass.
I may be the only person who believes what I'm saying but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I will put my record on these matters up against anyone on this site. This isn't my first rodeo... I have a record of being correct.
I'm sorry I bothered trying to help you get a grip on reality. Think whatever you want to think. I'm not going to waste any more time on the issue which is your own insanity.
"Romans 6:14 New International VersionFor sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
Belonging.....
"hn 8:44 New International VersionYou belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for thereis no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Origin of sin...
Ezekiel 28:15King James Version(KJV)15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
But then i agree to what you said cos our sin is independent of satan's sin.
He sinned first and got an army and a kingdom.
Adam is the originator of man's sin. So jesus paid for adam and his descendants so we are pardonned.~salvation and grace.
But satan's sin has not been paid for or pardonned. And he is going to pay one day in the pit.
So then jesus then paid to the judge so we are pardonned.... Probably because man has always shown remorse...from adam, abraham, david etc.
While satan without remorse keeps piling up an army against God.
But then he is the master of the art and can control men since we are now sinners too.
Ephesians 6:11New International Version (NIV)11 Put on the full armor of God,so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.
2 Corinthians 11:3Verse ConceptsBut I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
John 17:15Verse Concepts"I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.2 Thessalonians 3:3Verse ConceptsBut the Lord is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one
Captivity...
2 Timothy 2:26Verse Conceptsand they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
To start with, you are quoting many books with varying ideas about what God's word is and those different books are contrary to each other and contrary to the word of God. In English the word of God is the King James Bible.
Satan is not "the master of the art of sin", and he does not control men. Sinners are controlled by their own sin. If they pledge allegiance to Satan and yield their wills to him, it is their choice. If they are held captive by the devil and they do the devil's will, it is because of their own choice to reject the truth and believe lies. Nobody can say "the devil made me do it" as a legitimate excuse.
You are glorifying Satan with the stuff you are twisting from the Bible. There is nowhere in the Bible which honors Satan in any way and you are calling him "the master of the art of sin". Sin is not an art, it's evil, it tears down creation and any creature in sin. Witchcraft might be called an art, but even witchcraft in reality is not an art, it's evil and it's destructive taking the person who plays with it down to Hell if they won't repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You're trying to quote all kinds of scripture to justify your twisted idea of Satan being the master of sin. Satan is just a sinner, master of nothing. God is Master over Satan, over sin, over death, and over Hell.....and over all of Satan's demons and over all sinners. You are falling into a snare of the devil be being fooled to say the devil has more power than he actually has. Satan cannot control anybody who does not agree to accept lies in place of truth, and you are teaching lies when you give Satan titles like "the master of the art of sin". There is no art in sin and Satan is not the master of it. Evil is not art.
and once again: The debt was not paid to Satan, the debt was not owed to Satan, the debt was owed to God and He satisfied Himself that it was paid in full by His own innocent blood.
You said the price of sin was paid to Satan when Christ died for our sins. No debt was owed to Satan, Satan has no right to claim the payment was made to him. Maybe Satan thought he won when Christ died, hoping Christ would not rise from the dead but I think he knew the Lord could not be held by death and knew he had forever lost his battle of rebellion when Christ rose from the dead in victory over sin and presented His blood on the mercy seat in the Holy of Holy places at the throne of God satisfying God's wrath against our sin. The payment was made to God on our behalf by Himself and for His own name's sake, His own honor, His own glory...proving He has the right to leave unrepentant sinners separated from the living forever in the lake of fire, ending the excuse of "you gave me free will, so if you leave me in the fire of Hell it's your fault for creating me and it proves you are not good". Everybody can now see that God is justified to forgive all who believe on His Son and is justified to leave in the fire of Hell forever all who refuse to repent of their sin and believe on His Son.
I think you got mixed up by a number of things: First, too much intrigue from evil things like voodoo, witch doctors, Satanists, whatever occult style they use where you come from.
Second, too much T.D. Jakes stuff.
Third, confusion on what book is God's word in English.
You need to get some erroneous ideas out of your head. Satan will encourage you in confusing doctrines as a way to hinder your effectiveness in communicating the gospel.
JatinNagpal I have to coment on your icon, your in a hurry, getting a head start? Do you want to be assigned with the wicked?
When God shines a light on your icon, on the day you are forced to face up to the fact that He is real. When all the glory of Heaven is before you and not one think hidden.
Nakedness before Him with no excuses or fig leaves. And you appear with the forehead and even whole head you chose so boldly and braisingly with your fist up to God?
If I went back in time and came upon my 6 year old self, we are the same being but not the same person. He could ask me questions, receive my protection, and even look up to me. He could also pay me on someone else's behalf.
As to what you said here, that means that the trinity is just a single "soul" in 3 different bodies. Doesn't explain the differences, or even that why would one of them pay the other.
He sacrificed himself to himself as a loophole to his own rules. It's entirely in God's control whether or not someone goes to hell, if he wants to forgive us for the sins that we seem to find nearly impossible not to do he could either get us to actually do something good to make up for them or he could just blanket forgive us. Either way the blood sacrifice is an unnecessary step
If you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell, one day God is going to be fed up with you, end your time of abusing His fresh air to slander His name, and He will leave you in Hell which will permanently restrain, contain and consume your hatred against Him forever, proving He is good by punishing evil and you will have to pay your own price for your sin.
I hope you don't think you have the right as a sinner to exist outside of Hell, or that the fire of Hell will be in any way tolerable for any sinner including Satan.
I pledged nothing to anybody, I received the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord. He keeps His word. What He did is not dependent on what I do or do not do. Be entering into agreement with Him I found His mercy, I know the truth and the truth makes me free.
You know confusion and can't get enough of it because it is impossible to prove:
1)God is not good, because He is good
2)You have the right to live, because you never had that right, it was lost before you were born
3)Evil has the right to roam freely accusing God of not being good and evil cannot be contained and confined permanently in the consuming fire of Hell which burns with the passion of sin against God's goodness forever. God is good and will separate all evil by the fire of Hell away from the living where evil sinners like you will never be able to bother the living with your stupid arguments and will never be able to add to the darkness of the damned as their sentences will be executed and finalized in Hell with you forever.
You're trying to play devil's advocate, and the devil is gloating over your destruction, the devil is cheering you on as you propel yourself into the fire of Hell, deceiving you into thinking you can argue your way out of punishment.
God pledges eternal life to all who believe on His Son. God always honors His pledge, the better word is promise.
I realized that I deserve to burn in Hell forever, I believed on Jesus in His bodily resurrection in victory over death, I received Him by faith as He is, the only Savior and now my Savior, and I know He paid for my sins in full and God is satisfied with what He did for me and my sins are all forgiven as they have been paid for in full by the innocent blood of God in God the Son Jesus Christ.
It's what He did for me to save me from Hell, and for all who put their trust in Him. The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord, I have received that gift, I have received Jesus Christ personally in reality as He is, the Living God, the Creator who became the Savior, my Lord and my King and forever I will praise Him and give Him all the honor He deserves for creating me and dying for me to save me from Hell.
You're an idiot, a murderer at heart. Those who know Jesus Christ in His resurrection will follow Him through death in eternal life. This is why the gospel can never be stopped until all Christians (I mean real Christians in whom the Spirit of God dwells, Jesus Christ Himself in His blood bought children...not people who say they are Christians but think it's some kind of religion where they try to be good in order to earn God's mercy) are removed from the world. Real Christians in whom dwells the risen Savior by His Holy Spirit are His body in the world, the church which the gates of Hell will never prevail against. The gospel of Jesus Christ was spread around the world by His chosen apostles and hundreds of witnesses who knew He was bodily risen from the dead and is alive forever and is God incarnated, the Son of God one with the Father who dwells in His people by His Holy Spirit. Those who know He lives and lives in them will accept torture and death rather than to renounce the reality of what He did for them as He suffered for them far more than they can suffer at the hands of evil men spurred by the devil minded fools like you.
I think it's you who has made a pact with the devil, believing you will have power in Hell if you have to be there. The devil is fooling you, are only making things worse for yourself........or maybe it was some spirit which convinced you to make a pact after it promised you some special honor when your time in this world is finished. You're following liars, you are teaching lies, you get it from the father of lies and it seems like you have sold your soul to the devil without realizing you're going to end up in the fire of Hell powerless with nothing good the same as the devil who has nothing on God but to gloat over the destruction of sinners like you who could have been saved from Hell but chose rather to try to prove they have the right to be sinners. Sure you have the right to be a sinner....in the fire of Hell you have that right.
While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
God included His mission Statements in, and for each Testament. And He even signed them both!
Its interesting how we start projects and declare “mission statements” for our work. God did also.
There are two well-known references to the creation in the Scripture: Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.
Both Hebrew and Greek use letters as both letters and numbers. So if we read it by its numeric value in these two verses we can find pi and e to the 4th decimal.
And both are more precise than you would learn in math class! They are precise to advanced usage of both. Same exact formula, and to the same decimal point.
To see Hebrew or Greek letter chart go to link and click on the linked word “chart”
See more at Koinia House – Chuck Missler
Let’s look “underneath” the text of each of these.
Here it is in English
Genesis 1:1
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
This time if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:
Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words
You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of “e” again to four decimal places!
Sitting at the top of two different books
And in the very first sentence of the books.
Each are written regarding in the beginning … and
Each are in two different periods of God moving through time.
Here is a thought, since both start with the words “in the beginning,”
The ONLY two books in the Bible to start with “in the beginning”
A thought, John’s era was influenced ever since the time of Daniel. This is when they began to write in Greek.
Conclusion, if the Jews were not taken captive by Babylon, then John’s book would have likely also been written in Hebrew just as the Old Testament.
If John was writing Hebrew, these similar words from these two books would not have “e” in the text. would in part have the verse in Genesis where “pi” is encoded.
The placement of “e” not only is a fun fact oddly found. It tells in context, of God’s purpose and mission statement in the New Testament.
Even John writing in Greek indicates the mission statement God intended, extending beyond the Hebrew Nation.
The Bible many times foretold of turning God’s good news outward to the Gentiles, and also tells of God’s mission statement to add back in the Jews, after the time of the Gentiles are complete.
Much of what Jesus and the apostles said in laying the groundwork of the first church was based on growth rate of doubling, like in bearing interest.
Jesus also described the idea of exponential growth in at least one of His parables, and also in context of growth of His Kingdom, through bearing seed, and producing a tree after its kind, producing good fruit after good fruit.
Jesus told us the rate of doubling in the parable of the talents. Which was a lesson in “investing” which is a use of the advanced math we know of as “e,” rate of doubling… 2, 4, 8, 16 … Wall Street is built on it.
So “e” modern day advanced math is not only found in the John 1: 1.
But also tells of rate of doubling in the exponential growth of faith in the commission to “every nation.”
Jesus uses the rate of doubling in parables to describe “e” in the context focus of the entire New Testament, which was based on His New Testament mussion statement.
John was one of the first yields of initial investment from the Seed, and from there, fulfilled God’s mission statement for exponential growth of the Gospel from just one nation, out to every nation.
While also fulfilling God’s promise to Abraham. “The father of many nations.“
God promised Abraham that he would be father of MANY nations, in the amount of the sands of the sea…
Jesus, is the promised seed of redemption spoken of in the Garden at the fall, brought forth through generations from Abraham.
Isn’t “Seed” a term used for “initial investment?”
God included His mission Statements in, and for each Testament. And He even signed them both!
Its interesting how we start projects and declare “mission statements” for our work. God did also.
There are two well-known references to the creation in the Scripture: Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.
Both Hebrew and Greek use letters as both letters and numbers. So if we read it by its numeric value in these two verses we can find pi and e to the 4th decimal.
And both are more precise than you would learn in math class! They are precise to advanced usage of both. Same exact formula, and to the same decimal point.
To see Hebrew or Greek letter chart go to link and click on the linked word “chart”
See more at Koinia House – Chuck Missler
Let’s look “underneath” the text of each of these.
Here it is in English
Genesis 1:1
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
This time if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:
Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words
You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of “e” again to four decimal places!
Sitting at the top of two different books
And in the very first sentence of the books.
Each are written regarding in the beginning … and
Each are in two different periods of God moving through time.
Here is a thought, since both start with the words “in the beginning,”
The ONLY two books in the Bible to start with “in the beginning”
A thought, John’s era was influenced ever since the time of Daniel. This is when they began to write in Greek.
Conclusion, if the Jews were not taken captive by Babylon, then John’s book would have likely also been written in Hebrew just as the Old Testament.
If John was writing Hebrew, these similar words from these two books would not have “e” in the text. would in part have the verse in Genesis where “pi” is encoded.
The placement of “e” not only is a fun fact oddly found. It tells in context, of God’s purpose and mission statement in the New Testament.
Even John writing in Greek indicates the mission statement God intended, extending beyond the Hebrew Nation.
The Bible many times foretold of turning God’s good news outward to the Gentiles, and also tells of God’s mission statement to add back in the Jews, after the time of the Gentiles are complete.
Much of what Jesus and the apostles said in laying the groundwork of the first church was based on growth rate of doubling, like in bearing interest.
Jesus also described the idea of exponential growth in at least one of His parables, and also in context of growth of His Kingdom, through bearing seed, and producing a tree after its kind, producing good fruit after good fruit.
Jesus told us the rate of doubling in the parable of the talents. Which was a lesson in “investing” which is a use of the advanced math we know of as “e,” rate of doubling… 2, 4, 8, 16 … Wall Street is built on it.
So “e” modern day advanced math is not only found in the
John 1: 1.
But also tells of rate of doubling in the exponential growth of faith in the commission to “every nation.”
Jesus uses the rate of doubling in parables to describe “e” in the context focus of the entire New Testament, which was based on His New Testament mission statement.
John was one of the first yields of initial investment from the Seed, and from there, fulfilled God’s mission statement for exponential growth of the Gospel from just one nation, out to every nation.
While also fulfilling God’s promise to Abraham. “The father of many nations.“
God promised Abraham that he would be father of MANY nations, in the amount of the sands of the sea…
Jesus, is the promised seed of redemption spoken of in the Garden at the fall, brought forth through generations from Abraham.
Isn’t “Seed” a term used for “initial investment?”
A load of superstitious nonsense ; Jesus sacrificed himself to ... himself for our sins before we were born knowing we were going to commit them ehh why ?
And then we are giving free will but if we don't do what the sky bully wants we pay the price for exercising ...... free will ... I think a load of Bronze Age stoners made this tall tale up in the equivalent in them days of a crack house
If you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell, one day God is going to be fed up with you, end your time of abusing His fresh air to slander His name, and He will leave you in Hell which will permanently restrain, contain and consume your hatred against Him forever, proving He is good by punishing evil and you will have to pay your own price for your sin.
The died for our sins story was invented for mass appeal because most of the competing pagan gods just wanted people to kiss their @ss and felt no obligation to do anything to help people and then allegedly here comes one willing to make the biggest sacrifice to help the people. (And that's people the god created flawed, whom he then condemned as a species for breaking one arbitrary rule of don't eat the apple, whose kids then all supposedly had original sin which was to justify why it wasn't enough to just be good regardless of whether you believed or not).
Competing religions are written up like a game of my dad is better than your dad.
Indeed, god paying the price for our sins is equivalent to a credit card company giving you a card with a balance already on it and saying you have to keep paying on it forever because there is no way you alone can pay it off yourself, but if you keep your minimum payments up then upon death god will graciously pay off the remainder he himself loaded on there at the start.
There are, but they don't offer individualised immortality. That's a deal breaker.
We could incorporate the best of all - A GOD THAT OFFERS UNCONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY! And an afterlife worthy of us. We could have eternal clubs there, and not have to worry about taking care of material bodies.
If you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell, one day God is going to be fed up with you, end your time of abusing His fresh air to slander His name, and He will leave you in Hell which will permanently restrain, contain and consume your hatred against Him forever, proving He is good by punishing evil and you will have to pay your own price for your sin.
In other words, you accepted the credit card with the balance already run up on it so high you can't possibly pay it off yourself and now are slave to install payments hoping God will pay the rest of your balance when you die. Meanwhile I say the credit card itself is a scam just to make you play along. And your word back to me is look out, you're going to have a balance you can't pay. Which is exactly where we end up every time we have this discussion.
The other words you are using are incorrect. You are in debt to God and your debt is constantly rising, you can never pay off your debt even by frying like an eternal sausage in Hell because nothing will change what you are, a sinner, and nothing will undo the things you have done. You will never be out of debt, you need forgiveness, complete and total, before judgment is executed against you in death. You need to fall at God's feet as dead now, admitting His judgement of death against your sin is warranted and the debt you owe is something you cannot pay off.
There is no scam, you are not being forced to play along, you can forget about your debt to God and die with your eyes closed. You are free to go your own way, you loudly proclaim you are going your own way and that you are proud of yourself, so go on and see if death gets you out of the debt you owe to God. You're not being very smart, I think it is largely due to the wine.
You don't want to feel threatened by death or by Hell, so forget about it all and enjoy your wine...idiot.
Your credit card analogy is flawed in that you think you can pay down your debt partially and God pays the rest. That's not how it works. Either you pay it all in Hell or you accept God's payment on your behalf by the blood of His Son who paid in full for a debt He did not owe, your debt, and He offers you forgiveness of all your debt if you will repent of all your sin and believe on Him in His resurrection and receive Him by faith as your Savior.
God gives you time you do not deserve, you are a slave to sin and your debt to God only increases constantly with the passage of time, and God is offering you pardon to be forgiven of your debt and set free from the penalty attached to sin which is Hell.
You idolize that wine, it's sin and I think you know you would have to leave it behind if you believe on Jesus and receive Him as your Savior. I believe there are some other sins, pet sins of yours which you know you would have to renounce and turn away from if you believe on Jesus to be saved from Hell. People won't believe because they are trying to justify themselves, trying to excuse their sin..."I'll do it my way".
You can't pay any more than a moments worth of time at any moment, you can't even begin to pay down your debt because it is constantly rising no matter what you do, you owe God for every moment of your time. You cannot earn God's favor so that He pays for you what you cannot pay, He paid for your sins and you must accept that He paid for you or you have to pay for yourself. It's not "I'll pay my part, and God can pay the rest". He paid it all, and you must pay it all if you will not repent of all your sin and fall like a dead man at the feet of God desiring His mercy and receive Him, Jesus, as your Savior
You are on borrowed time. Some of your points contain some truth, but you are getting confused to think that you can in any way pay down your debt to God. Your debt will always be rising and you will never be able to slow the rise of your debt........only the fire of Hell can contain your out of control spending of time.
The devil said some things true when he quoted scripture to Jesus in the wilderness, tempting Jesus to fall into serving the devil. Yes some of the things you used in your analogy are valid, your life kinda can be looked at as a credit card on which every transaction, every word, thought, and action is accounted for and for which you owe a debt to God. Your analogy fails when you think you can partially pay that credit card off. You can't pay it off, you can only pay for each moment of time now. As a sinner will never be able to get out of debt unless God pardons you and released you from your debt. All you can do is add to the balance of that card moment my moment and it always goes steady up. You need to get the account settled and God made the provision by paying the price in full Himself with His own blood so He can be satisfied your debt was paid and you can be forgiven in His resurrection if you believe on Him and ask God the Father in the name of God the Son to save you from your sins, save you from Hell.
It's very simple, a child can understand the gospel which is the good news from God of the resurrection of Jesus Christ who died for all mankind to save all who believe on Him from Hell. You are trying to make it complicated because you don't want to let go of your sins, for example, you don't want to quit satiating yourself with wine.
There is no hypocracy in the truth, your analogy was flawed in some points and usable in others. The fact that I point out the difference between the parts representative of truth and the parts based on lies does not make me a hypocrite, and it does not make you a hypocrite. You presented an analogy and I pointed out the parts that work and the parts that don't work. There is no hypocrisy in your analogy and no hypocrisy in my commentary on your analogy.
You really think calling me a hypocrite wins a debate? Isn't that kinda lame brained? That's the kind of garbage you gave me from the start and it is why I don't much care to try to have a reasonable conversation with you....that kind of garbage is not reasonable.
That's exactly what I do when I partially agree with you and then add a "but". And then you whine about me doing it. And that's why calling you a hypocrite does win this debate.
Why don't you just have a glass of whine and ignore me? You're just a cry baby punk...boo hoo, Saintnow bans me when I come to his debates and call him names, boo hoo, boo hoo. I'm gonna tell Andy it's not fair, I should be allowed to say whatever I want however I want to say it whenever I want to say it and Saint Now doesn't let me, he bans me, boo hoo, boo hoo...WAAHHHAAahahahA WWWaaaahh.
You owe God a debt for your sin. He paid that debt for you with His own blood. The debt is owed to God. Are you really as stupid as you act? You either believe He took your sin on Himself and paid for it so you can be forgiven of you pay for it yourself in Hell. That's the way it is.
If you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell, one day God is going to be fed up with you, end your time of abusing His fresh air to slander His name, and He will leave you in Hell which will permanently restrain, contain and consume your hatred against Him forever, proving He is good by punishing evil and you will have to pay your own price for your sin.
You people are opposing yourself, God owes you nothing, never has, never will. Going against Him is going against your own life and you are losing it all, losing your soul, and will end up in Hell if you will not repent of all your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, God incarnate who died for you, paid your price so that He can forgive you and be satisfied the price was paid and justice was served so you can be with Him, forgiven, in His resurrection.
You're not thinking rationally if you are against being saved from Hell by the Savior.
Who is god to judge me? How can god sit up in heaven and watch his creation go to shit? What kind of god allows children to be physically and sexually abused? What kind of god allows war? Senseless killing over money and power, worldly things? How can god allow a race of good hearted people be oppressed by another race thinking they have dominion over them? what kind of god allows a church of his to oppress, violate, express hatred like the westboro baptist church? God wants to judge me based on the way I lived my life, when he's the one that allows the most sick and twisted shit to happen? Then I don't want no part of god. I don't want his son. If he plans for me to burn for eternity in hell, then I think that's better than living beside a traitor like him for eternity!
You'll just be a waste of time for me. You don't want to be with God in Heaven so you will be in Hell's torments forever. You are asking for it and God will reluctantly give it to you and I see no reason why I should try talking sense to you to get you to see your predicament in reality.
Listen you potty mouth punk, your language is hateful and you want to put your dirty filth in my face and expect me to talk with you? You'd likely be swallowing your teeth if you talk that way to people you don't know where I come from.
You're not worth my time if you just want to be a hater. Go see if you can keep yourself out of Hell, come back if you realize you need to be saved from Hell and you are ready to admit you deserve to burn in Hell and need God the Savior to keep you safe from it.
I can agree with that... I should have more respect for you in the sense that I should not use offensive words. I was a little worked up and I apologize.
You're on your way to Hell. God Himself died in your place so you can be forgiven as He paid in full what you can only pay moment by moment in eternal dying....what you deserve, eternal separation from God and justice demands you be confined in the consuming fire of Hell forever where sin belongs.
You won't repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the resurrected Savior, the Living God........so just go see for yourself if you really want to be in Hell forever.
That is exactly what I was saying. I would rather spend eternity in hell rather than sit next to god in his kingdom of heaven if all he is going to do is allow mankind to oppress and destroy each other. The bible says that god is a loving and caring god. Bring the children to me. Love thy neighbor. But he 'allows' hate crimes to keep going on. And he allows children to be victims of sick and disturbing individuals. It also doesn't make sense of how god used to appear to people (burning bush, e.g.) and now... nothing. No one sees god, or hears from him. It's just blind worship. It's funny how christians get so worked up to defend something that they've never actually 'seen' or 'heard'. Just a book. A book that supports the theory of a flat earth. A book that was written by mankind. This is after all a debate site. Why are you getting so pushy with me? All I really did was contribute to the debate on the appropriate side.. Maybe it's because we hold religion so closely as a belief that we refuse to allow anyone to say anything that points out contradictions. Instead of acknowledging what we see, hear, touch, taste and smell with our senses we rely on those religions that have been passed down through our family beliefs. After all, people trust their parents more than they do strangers, so why not believe that the bible is true, and ignore the fact that these books of the bible were composed by different people in archaic languages on different scripts and compiled into the book of the bible.
Essentially. The bible teaches some good things, especially the new testament. How we should love and respect one another. But, if you read it closely, the bible was made for a particular group of people. The jews. Personally, I have nothing against jews. They are good hearted people. However, god of the bible decided he had particular favor with them (mostly old testament). Then along comes Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus). Jesus tried to preach to the jews to make them realize that the covenant of Abraham is being broken, and that god had sent jesus as the new lord and saviour, and that no one can enter the kingdom of heaven except through believing that Jesus dies for their sins and as long as they believe that - then their sins are paid for through his blood. (This part is what this particular debate is about).
I think there has become a lot of separation between the days of old and modern times. Sure, jesus came to save all of mankind, however - who he really wanted to make believe were the jews. This is all in the bible.
It's my personal opinion that all religions are the same. Try to teach good morals so that people can live together in some sort of harmony, but the truth is... we don't... and we never will. So long as people have a closed mind and don't allow others with a totally different opinion to express those opinions without getting into a shouting match about who is right and wrong.
Maybe every religion is right. Maybe, you create your afterlife with whatever you believe is your spiritual truth is. I think it's kind of screwed up to believe that there are only two paths, heaven or hell, and that a supreme being is going to put on a judges robe and shoot me into hell just for having normal human thoughts for questioning a book about religion. But based on what I've seen on earth... god is the one that should be judged, not each of us.
Hell is unending torment of fire, you are asking for it. Due to your profanity, I'm not reading more than the first line of your post. I would not have even read that if I saw it was you first.
You can find all the answers to your statements and questions easily if you want to. I have answered that stuff hundreds of times. You won't accept the answer or you would go looking for it yourself and find it.
It's people like you who have not questioned their beliefs, who are scared of examining what they really believe.
Tell me: What is the meaning of life?
What makes you valuable?
Where are you going when your time is over?
Why do you have to die? Why are you dying? Does God not care that you are dying?
Typical atheistic hope for the end.......thinking you become unaccountable for your sins in death.
You may have questioned your belief, but you ended your questioning with an answer designed to stop you from questioning and to resign to total loss....the only problem is that in reality you are not escaping in death, you are not getting out of your problems in death.
So if life is whatever you make it out to be, why don't I kill you since I decide life is more fun for the most powerful person?
You say love is valuable? What if I kill all the ones who love you, and all the ones you love. Then what value do you have?
You don't know or care where you are going when your time is over? I thought you reached a conclusion about the end and have accepted every scenario. So do you know where you are going or not? Apparently not, and the only scenario you rule out of your questioning is to be stuck dying in Hell forever.
"I don't know and I don't care" means you are not questioning what happens when your time is over. And you want me to believe you have seriously questioned your beliefs?
You think dying is life? Really? It seems to me that dying is the destruction of life. How can you say dying and life are the same thing? Are you sure you are alive?
Does God care that you are dying? You did not answer this at all. It's a yes or a no question, you answered with "depends on if you believe." What kind of an answer is that? are you saying you don't like the question and prefer not to think about it?
If Dying is natural, what is living? If living is natural, why are you dying?
You like to believe that you return to the place you were before you were born? That would be your mothers womb where you came into existence at conception. Why do you want to go there? do you think you'll be safe there?
You seem to be avoiding questions, not asking questions relentlessly searching for truth. Do you realize that you sound exactly like hundreds of others trying to dodge questions and providing half-answers or no answer actually preventing yourself for questioning your beliefs. Why are you afraid to question your belief?
If you have accepted every scenario, then you also accept the scenario of Hell being a place of eternal torment of sinners where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched, and if that is the scenario you find is reality when your time is over, you are okay with it? You might as well take a flying leap into a big bonfire now, and see if you really are okay with every scenario.
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Freedom is seeing through eyes of eternity. When we realize this temporal is a breath, and we understand Jesus is the way , and decide to follow Christ, those who truly have experienced God, offer up this temporal, and count it all lost, in exchange for His grace, forgiveness , cleansing which is severing flesh and sin, and His Spirit to seal us and to create us as new creations who are innocent sheep presented before a Holy Supreme Majesty who left Heaven to walk in our flesh, and be broken in death, from One Lord our God, Son from the Father .
We exchange this short time pleasure and pain, and submit it to Him and live as though ready to in a moments notice let it all go.
That is the Good News of the Gospel, is when our countenance is lifted we build eternal. This temporal is passing, but when He comes and we see Him as He is we will be changed to be like Him, at the last trump.
And dead will be raised and bodies with souls made whole. (Restoring the from the curse of the brokenness of man.)
I think you have admitted to being angry at God because you are stuck in a wheelchair and I feel sorry for you. You can know God's love and be set free from your negative emotions and irrational thinking patterns.
This is what happens when try to pretend to be a Christian when you aren't. You just start talking crazy. The concept of Christianity is so crazy to you that you think anything that sounds equally crazy will make sense. Well, it doesn't.
Why do you picture yourself as a little fat man who thinks it's funny to be dirty and evil? Is that you in the picture, and you really think God will not let you fall into the fire of Hell as you hate Him and love death?
You're a bitter and thankless idiot, cartman, you should be thanking God that your not burning in Hell already but you worship the moment of whatever you experience or do while the thin ice over Hell melts under your wheelchair.
You need to repent of your sin and thank God He came down from Heaven as the Son of God to die for you so you can be forgiven by God in His resurrection and be saved from Hell.
Amen. That's good preaching. Good for all who believe and against all who love their sins.
Freedom is seeing through eyes of eternity. When we realize this temporal is a breath, and we understand Jesus is the way , and decide to follow Christ, those who truly have experienced God, offer up this temporal, and count it all lost, in exchange for His grace, forgiveness , cleansing which is severing flesh and sin, and His Spirit to seal us and to create us as new creations who are innocent sheep presented before a Holy Supreme Majesty who left Heaven to walk in our flesh, and be broken in death, from One Lord our God, Son from the Father .
We exchange this short time pleasure and pain, and submit it to Him and live as though ready to in a moments notice let it all go.
That is the Good News of the Gospel, is when our countenance is lifted we build eternal. This temporal is passing, but when He comes and we see Him as He is we will be changed to be like Him, at the last trump.
And dead will be raised and bodies with souls made whole. (Restoring the from the curse of the brokenness of man.)
I dont insist you believe anything. I ask that you logically reason and evaluate the many points of evidence, and I ask people to be impartial jurors without being steered.
The only reason not to be an impartial jury is because you look through eyes tainted by others.
So Im not saying go to this religion or that one. I am asking for open minds first, before deciding on your eternal outcome.
Now I dont actually have to readon in logic and show evidence.
I warned and gave the Gospel. You and many reject. My job of what God requires I have done.
I could slap dust and go to the next person and warn them.
But I labor to open minds, so some will consider opening their minds and beginnining a journey to discover beyond a closed mind, that ultimately will determine eternal existence of each.
So I am not telling people to believe a religion. I am asking people to be open to know more beyond the limitations set in minds by others.
You know what else would be perfectly awkward? You admitting that everything you write is pure bullshit. Do you also think it makes sense for everything you write to be bullshit?
It'd make sense if you actually believe in christianity, but think you're an agnostic, by trying to make people reason their way.
Now, you've been secretive about your stance on religions. That could be a real possibility, and perhaps you're now behaving this way to bluff me into thinking otherwise.
It is incredibly arrogant of you to think it isn't 100% accurate. The fact that you think you can figure out what people are saying without listening to them is incredibly fucked up.
So, what is your exact stance?
My exact stance is that you are a huge piece if shit that doesn't care about anyone but yourself.
Also, it isn't inconceivable for an agnostic to do that - it'd show an inability to believe, even though you might want to.
You think anything is possible so your opinion on the topic is worthless.
See? There's simply no way that you'd reply to anything.
I expected you to finally reply if I directly agreed with what you said.
But it seems that you want more than that, and any more does not end with you replying to anything (look at your comment! I don't really need to say more.)
I made it seem like I did. I don't have to put up with that if that won't be having you answer.
I want the person who asks me the question to be willing to hear the answer.
Of course I am willing. I even acted like I agree, and no one could make it out, due to which I couldn't be making it as dramatic as you seemed to have wanted. But you went on to make an entirely irrelevant answer.
So, you are admitting you didn't actually agree. If you actually agreed you wouldn't have to make it seem like you agreed, you would just simply agree. The fact that I was able to figure out that you didn't actually agree means you didn't actually make it seem like you agreed.
. I don't have to put up with that if that won't be having you answer.
You don't even believe you need to listen to my answer in order to know my position.
Of course I am willing.
I am not willing to take a habitual liar at his word.
I even acted like I agree, and no one could make it out,
I figured out you were just acting though.
But you went on to make an entirely irrelevant answer.
Your entire character is completely destroyed and you think it is irrelevant. Why do you have such a shitty view of yourself?
Now, what is your stance on religions?
I don't see any evidence for God. I think religion is a tool to help control people and allow a civilization to grow. I like to point out hypocrisy, so I quote the source material that religious people use in order to show they are hypocrites.
You can't even understand basic concepts like the order of events that happened. How can you possibly understand anything else? I called you out for not agreeing the first time you pretended to agree before you indicated that you were just pretending.
don't lie except when it is necessary for the purpose
How noble of you. You don't lie except when you lie.
That's what it is, though. But what is your stance on it? For example, do you love what it is?
It is fucking amazing how you can have the stance that you don't need to explain anything you say when you also need everything explained to you. Why don't you live by the golden rule and treat others the way you want to be treated? Why are you such a fucking piece if shit. Answer those questions and I will give you my stance.
I called you out for not agreeing the first time you pretended to agree before you indicated that you were just pretending.
Oh, that thing? That's because it was too absurd for me to pretend to completely agree. I said it here.
I couldn't be making it as dramatic as you seemed to have wanted.
Doesn't seem like you're improving.
You don't lie except when you lie.
That'd be true, but obviously not a restatement of what I said.
It is fucking amazing how you can have the stance that you don't need to explain anything you say when you also need everything explained to you. Why don't you live by the golden rule and treat others the way you want to be treated? Why are you such a fucking piece if shit. Answer those questions and I will give you my stance.
I reject your Christian morality and commandments.
You just said what causes a religion to be formed and how you treat its followers. Neither even implies the answer.
Unless, of course, we equate how you treat followers to what you think about religions.
It's obvious and you keep disagreeing with it. How fucking dumb are you that you disagree with the obvious?
But the golden rule...
Oh, forget that.
Of course you don't believe in the golden rule. That would reguire you to not be an asshole.
Though if it is something that was hidden in your obscenities, then I might have not even seen it.
You are afraid of the obvious, morality, and words. You are such a great person. Good for you. At least you explained why you are a piece of shit.
My stance on religion is that it no longer serves a purpose and it has outlived its usefulness. Religion now tried to divide people instead of uniting them. They go against science and have become inconsistent. I hate religion.
Of course you don't believe in the golden rule. That would reguire you to not be an asshole.
I am whatever the task requires me to be. It makes for a good sport.
Though I rather prefer the categorical imperative than the golden rule. But my morality would still be something the specifics of which will come some time later.
You are afraid
I'm not afraid of anything. Especially not here.
My stance on religion is that it no longer serves a purpose and it has outlived its usefulness. Religion now tried to divide people instead of uniting them. They go against science and have become inconsistent. I hate religion.
I guessed that once, but you confused me that time by denying to say anything about it - as if it can't be the case.
But my morality would still be something the specifics of which will come some time later.
Specifics from you? Ha, good one.
not afraid of anything. Especially not here.
You aren't aware you are afraid of anything. FTFY.
but you confused me that time by denying to say anything about it
Weird. You get confused when someone doesn't tell you something they already told you, but that is how you act to other people. Now that you found out that it confuses people when you act that way will you continue?
"But my morality would still be something the specifics of which will come some time later."
"Yeah, I don't really plan to tell them."
I fucking know you better than you know yourself.
You're an idiot if you think that you can scare me.
I don't think I can scare you. I say things and you get scared. Apparently I fucking know you better than you know yourself.
course, now it's my mistake whatever you say and imply.
Seriously?
Yes, moron. When someone doesn't say anything it's your fault for claiming they implied something. You said I didn't say anything and that I implied something with what I said. That's your fault you stupid fuck.
You don't get it. The first part was an error. I used the wrong modal - will implies certainty. It is rather 'can' or 'might' that works correctly.
I say things and you get scared. Apparently I fucking know you better than you know yourself.
I'd rather laugh at you than be scared.
I'd recommend you cease your attempts for scaring me; they're bound to remain fruitless.
When someone doesn't say anything it's your fault for claiming they implied something. You said I didn't say anything and that I implied something with what I said. That's your fault you stupid fuck.
Who said anything about not saying anything? That'd equally imply a hesitation to answer, and that'd be unrelated to any negatives I might count in implied things over your beliefs.
You need not consider the exact things if you can't, but that'd require you considering my word as gospel, which I'm certain you'd never do if you remain the way you are.
You don't get it. The first part was an error. I used the wrong modal - will implies certainty. It is rather 'can' or 'might' that works correctly.
I say things and you get scared. Apparently I fucking know you better than you know yourself.
I'd rather laugh at you than be scared.
I'd recommend you cease your attempts for scaring me; they're bound to remain fruitless.
When someone doesn't say anything it's your fault for claiming they implied something. You said I didn't say anything and that I implied something with what I said. That's your fault you stupid fuck.
Who said anything about not saying anything? That'd equally imply a hesitation to answer, and that'd be unrelated to any negatives I might count in implied things over your beliefs.
You need not consider the exact things if you can't, but that'd require you considering my word as gospel, which I'm certain you'd never do if you remain the way you are.
That's something minor enough for me to have ignored the error.
Of course. It was your error, so it must be minor.
You have no idea. There is nothing to give you power over me, so I don't have to fear.
The only thing that gives me that power is you. I am not even trying. You are actually right, there is nothing I say that you should fear, and yet your fear just takes over. It's weird, I know. I can't explain your fear, but I can see it.
It's about saying things that strongly imply something.
You seriously need to go back to school. You think people imply the exact opposite of the words they tell you.
That should have been clear from the next part.
Seriously man, nothing you say is clear.
don't remember any explanation...probably it was something else, or I might have suspected it to be a decoy.
It is your inability to recognize your own faults. One of your major flaws is that when someone blames you for something you actually pretend they never said anything at all.
No, I did bring it up more times. So there probably was no explanation.
You ignored the explanation multiple times. That sounds like you.
Strangely silent about being a Nazi. Must mean you have something evil you don't want to admit.
The only thing that gives me that power is you. I am not even trying. You are actually right, there is nothing I say that you should fear, and yet your fear just takes over. It's weird, I know. I can't explain your fear, but I can see it.
No, you can't see anything. I wonder why someone would think me to be afraid. But then again, you aren't particularly smart.
It is your inability to recognize your own faults. One of your major flaws is that when someone blames you for something you actually pretend they never said anything at all.
Oh, you call that an explanation? I'd consider it to be a way of denying, in which you implied strongly that my guess is wrong and misled me.
I dont insist you believe anything. I ask that you logically reason and evaluate the many points of evidence, and I ask people to be impartial jurors without being steered.
The only reason not to be an impartial jury is because you look through eyes tainted by others.
So Im not saying go to this religion or that one. I am asking for open minds first, before deciding on your eternal outcome.
Now I dont actually have to readon in logic and show evidence.
I warned and gave the Gospel. You and many reject. My job of what God requires I have done.
I could slap dust and go to the next person and warn them.
But I labor to open minds, so some will consider opening their minds and beginnining a journey to discover beyond a closed mind, that ultimately will determine eternal existence of each.
So I am not telling people to believe a religion. I am asking people to be open to know more beyond the limitations set in minds by others.
I dont insist you believe anything. I ask that you logically reason and evaluate the many points of evidence, and I ask people to be impartial jurors without being steered.
The only reason not to be an impartial jury is because you look through eyes tainted by others.
So Im not saying go to this religion or that one. I am asking for open minds first, before deciding on your eternal outcome.
Now I dont actually have to readon in logic and show evidence.
I warned and gave the Gospel. You and many reject. My job of what God requires I have done.
I could slap dust and go to the next person and warn them.
But I labor to open minds, so some will consider opening their minds and beginnining a journey to discover beyond a closed mind, that ultimately will determine eternal existence of each.
So I am not telling people to believe a religion. I am asking people to be open to know more beyond the limitations set in minds by others.
I dont insist you believe anything. I ask that you logically reason and evaluate the many points of evidence, and I ask people to be impartial jurors without being steered.
The only reason not to be an impartial jury is because you look through eyes tainted by others.
So Im not saying go to this religion or that one. I am asking for open minds first, before deciding on your eternal outcome.
Now I dont actually have to readon in logic and show evidence.
I warned and gave the Gospel. You and many reject. My job of what God requires I have done.
I could slap dust and go to the next person and warn them.
But I labor to open minds, so some will consider opening their minds and beginnining a journey to discover beyond a closed mind, that ultimately will determine eternal existence of each.
So I am not telling people to believe a religion. I am asking people to be open to know more beyond the limitations set in minds by others.
I dont insist you believe anything. I ask that you logically reason and evaluate the many points of evidence, and I ask people to be impartial jurors without being steered.
The only reason not to be an impartial jury is because you look through eyes tainted by others.
So Im not saying go to this religion or that one. I am asking for open minds first, before deciding on your eternal outcome.
Now I dont actually have to readon in logic and show evidence.
I warned and gave the Gospel. You and many reject. My job of what God requires I have done.
I could slap dust and go to the next person and warn them.
But I labor to open minds, so some will consider opening their minds and beginnining a journey to discover beyond a closed mind, that ultimately will determine eternal existence of each.
So I am not telling people to believe a religion. I am asking people to be open to know more beyond the limitations set in minds by others.
