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Why are the debates here so personal?
It seems like we are very quick to ridicule opinions and values, shouldn't we aim higher and create a more welcoming debating community? Maybe more people would stay longer if they felt that their arguments were challenged rather than belittled and laughed at.
All debate websites turn personal after they land a couple conservative trolls on their memberships but this site magnifies it by allowing the "ban" feature which allows trolls to throw stink bombs and then hide behind a ban.
It's true.
Basically our local trolls can get away with more here than anywhere else so we get the worst offenders here to stay.
What a shock, our site Liberal is calling out Trolls as being Conservatives. You are the exact person this debate is speaking to.
Open your eyes and see your personal attacks against those who have differing opinions.
YOU JUST CALLED PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSERVATIVES....... as the TROLLS!
Where was your mention of a debate site landing a couple Liberal Trolls?
You are blind to your intolerance.
People ban others for very good reasons and have every right to do so. You are so blind to your Liberal slant that you can not believe someone would ever ban your extremist Liberal opinions.
Newsflash.... you are the extreme ones. Your ideology is extreme. Your ideology even supports killing viable unborn babies all the way up to birth for any reason. Debating that type of extremism often times ends up with bans. LIVE WITH IT!
I just want to clarify that I didnt point this debate towards anyone specific. This is just how I feel the general community behaves, myself included. I think we are all more or less to blame.
A conservative troll is a troll that happens to be conservative. Troll conservatives would be the phrase that would mean that he thinks all conservatives are trolls.
Liberal trolls don't get personal, they get irrational.
People ban others for very good reasons and have every right to do so.
People can ban for good reasons and have every right to, but the most frequent users if bans do not have good reasons. Good reasons have to be accurate in order to actually be good.
Your ideology is extreme.
You have proven you don't know what extreme means.
Your ideology even supports killing viable unborn babies all the way up to birth for any reason.
So does yours. Your ideology is more likely to have them, too.
Debating that type of extremism often times ends up with bans. LIVE WITH IT!
You are the only one who claims to not be able to live with it.
Ha ha ha. There are two people on this site who commit 75% or more of the bans, and then who smear and slam those people after they can no longer answer. FromWithin and SaintNow. Deal with it. This is your fame.
I think there are two factors here. The first is you get a measure of a person after a little bit of time on here so you know what to expect and subsequently you take what they say with either an eye roll or a grain or salt or just ignore them all together. This debate site is one of the few where it gives the person hosting the debate the power to ban others, which some people take to mean they get to ban anyone who disagree's with them and then comment....repeatedly..... after banning them in a desperate attempt to prove something. You just can't take that person seriously. Then you have others who leave the debate open, regardless of who flings what. I enjoy reading nearly all of them though, as it gives you a different perspective and a small sense of insight into a person.
The second is, you can't control everyone, some times you can get some REALLY great ideas and viewpoints from people that you'd never thought of before. If a person starts flinging mud then just move on, their stance isn't going to be that strong if they go into personal attacks, so you have to take control of what you do and deal with it accordingly. Debates can be personal because some people either A. think any opposite stance is an attack on the person themselves, or B. they are simply very passionate about some things. Just pick and choose your battles.
Lol, I know! It makes me laugh. I LOVE it when he keeps talking after banning. It's like shutting the door in someone's face then talking to the door thinking they are going to listen or are even there. Makes ya look a lil crazy, ya know?
I always wondered at that. When he constantly continues to debate a point he didn't like sometimes he'll do it a few days later after the ban. So has he been thinking about it the whole time? It must have really gotten under his skin if it eats at him that much or if it takes a few days to form a counter argument that isn't his usual copy/paste response.
In my experience, I find liberals very intolerant of others who disagree with them. It can't be that there is another valid opinion or, God forbid, they are wrong (usually this one), it has to be that you are a moron, stupid, or some other "term of endearment" they can come up with to marginalize you and put you in your place. I find them very unaccepting of those who don't toe the liberal line.
I feel the same way about certain conservatives on this site. I dont think its more or less liberals or conservatives that bully, its just that as a conservative you only get that attitude from liberals, and the same with me from conservatives.
that is because liberal vs conservative debates are always so silly .like whether police should shoot black people for no reason, that is not a reasonable debate .and yet conservatives will defend their position to the death .of course that is going to become personal .but if you are debate chocolate vs vanilla ice cream, that is much less likely to become personal .
I agree but i see it normal. Its something to be expected in an argument. Any offensive words people here throw are just mere words to me and i don't remember them. So if your patience is Not accommodative enough.......moon walk out
This is a debate site for people who don't want to debate either because they are too stupid (e.g. Sitara), only here to promote political ideologies (e.g fromwithin, saintnow) or can't can't be arsed anymore (me Cartman Hellno etc)
I've been here for like 6 years or so. I tried to set an example by trying to keep debates light hearted. But it hasn't worked. Some people have a different sense of humor ;)
Well when the site allows mentally unstable people like KNHav and Saintnow post their rants up well it's going to get personal ; anyone who disagrees with this pair of prize idiots is banned as they normally ask a question then ignore the answer and instead hurl abuse at everyone .
Well when the site allows mentally unstable people like KNHav and Saintnow post their rants up well it's going to get personal ; anyone who disagrees with this pair of prize idiots is banned as they normally ask a question then ignore the answer and instead hurl abuse at everyone .
Well when the site allows mentally unstable people like KNHav and Saintnow post their rants up well it's going to get personal ; anyone who disagrees with this pair of prize idiots is banned as they normally ask a question then ignore the answer and instead hurl abuse at everyone .
You know, you usually say to some people here they are mentally retarded. You are probably able to identify a lot of them cos you actually are their team leader.
That's so funny :) now you can get back to your crack pipe and get some more inspiration .... maybe get your mum to to help you with your next witticism when she's finished her pipe ... a family effort might be even funnier :)
He is a religious leader or founder, you almost or actually are an atheist.
Can't predict His coming cos He is not you. He brought His own style, you have always been a follower,replicator, and a style adopter of things you came to see on earth so you are predictable.
PROBABLY AMERICAN I SAID, NOT CERTAINLY. NEITHER ARE YOU ISRAELEE, ARE YOU.
Famous in the world? well i don't know you in my world(If not for here). But i know some "ordinary"(not some big position) rappers like Jay z, Nas, 2Pac......etc
Even they don't compete with the most famous man ever.
So just consider yourself popular cos nobody will listen to you if come to my country.
Original? You know there are a lot claiming originality but there is also a saying there's nothing new under the sun.(i wonder why)
So why do you try to give character assessments on someone you don't know ?
YOU JUST PROVED YOU ARE NOT FAMOUS.....i don't even know you
I don't know your non existent god either you clown :)
Imagine claiming that a supernatural entity that no one has ever seen heard or touched was famous :) back to your crack pipe ....
For your information a fair proportion of people do not know these famous rappers you speak off the same way I could not name one American football player yet I'm told they're famous .. fame like most things is realative .....
............n.nn..nnb..............n.... ............................. ........................bb...bbbbbn..........................................Tired of talking to you
Hi SS , I'm Irish from Dublin in the Republic of Ireland , I was once a devout catholic but rejected it and it's nonsense when I started reading about others whonthought differently .
I'm a full time artist and have works in four galleries plus negotiating with one New York and may be featuring there in the new year , so in the arts world I'm known .
Most debates on here I will start out with mutual respect but I do not comprehend why most the debaters just go off on the attack once you disagree with their opinion ; if I'm attacked I will go into attack mode I was never one for turning the other cheek :)
I agree about the selfish gene and it's influence cannot be undersestimated and it's great it lead you in pursuit of further knowledge .... thankfully you know God did not indeed do it :)
I myself am a Hitchens fan I fully recommend his collected commentaries
Well when the site allows mentally unstable people like KNHav and Saintnow post their rants up well it's going to get personal ; anyone who disagrees with this pair of prize idiots is banned as they normally ask a question then ignore the answer and instead hurl abuse at everyone .
People think differently. I believe that they are physically wired differently. As long as they are not actively trying to destroy or hurt something or someone. I have some friends and relatives that seem to think 180 degrees from the way I think and they are very passionate about their beliefs and I know there is no way I will ever be able to change their minds. So I just shrug, smile, and move on ;)
I have fought fire with fire before but it is not very satisfying because it means that someone was able to drag you down to their level.
Yes debate is fine and well , if someone gets nasty and aggressive I will give it back and unfortunately for some reason the majority of debates go that way on this site
As people we love to commit to a view point. Yet, often lack the time, wisdom, and understanding to express our views clearly to other. A sign can read and say, walk don’t run. But, there will always be the basic drive to be somewhere first.
People who leave have some ware else to be first. Try not to take it personal time affords us the opportunity to be second, third, and forth.
I don't see any particular need to coddle others, especially where I regard them as idiots whose presence I don't value. I don't see it as "aiming higher" to tolerate inferior reasoning, nor even as particularly uncivil. Not that I think anyone is entitled to civility from anyone else in the first place. If someone else is too sensitive for their own good, then I don't see how that's anyone else's problem. Let them keep running away from every person who doesn't hold their hand, or let them learn through experience to not take everything strangers on the internet say so seriously; it's all the same to me and not my responsibility at any rate.
This particular debate site IS very welcoming, IMHO. Since the censorhip and moderation and rule-enforcement by the site's head honcho is pretty much non-existent.
This site is FAR more lax on rules than others. It has practically No TOA (terms of agreement) contract as do the others, such as DDO and Historum.com and History.Org. (all of which I was a member on, and one of which I moderated the Science Forum.)
As far as ridiculing and insulting some of the posts, well, that happens only because so many of them Deserve to be ridiculed. People for example, who think a Bronze Age collection of Hebrew Myths and Fables is in any way remotely close to being a science book.
Would you go to a mall, find where they keep their Santa, go there and shout out loud to all the little kiddies, "There is no freaking Santa!!! He isn't real!!! Pull his beard and you'll see! Your parents buy you all the presents! Search for them when you get home! Stop believing in a fantasy!"
Everybody has shit they must deal with. Let them enjoy their life anyway they see fit. Hell, life is too short to be worrying about what other people think. The time is better spent dealing with your own shit ;)
The site bigot once again shows his intolernce for diversity of thought. WHAT A TOTAL FOOL YOU ARE!
Have you, the site narcissist, ever written a post that did not include bragging yourself up?
Normally you tell us all how you are a veteran, or how you are so intelligent, and this time how you headed up some Science forum.
I only post to you when I get such a laugh at your dysfunctional words. Have you ever written a post that did not ridicule Christians? Why any thinking person would waste time bantering words with you is mind boggling.
I will not be replying to whatever lame words you spew in response.
Actually in my last post I did not engage in bragging or Narcissism at all. I did not mention my military service, and the fact I DID moderate for a bit on DDO is also not a brag, but a simple point of fact. To be sure, I do not consider being a mod on an internet debate site anything to brag about. I have also written many posts that did not ridicule Christians. And you are welcome to check my Waterfall to see this yourself.
I also highly doubt you can find more than one other person here who agrees with you that I am a fool, as you claim.
Other than that, thanks for another fair and objective and knowledgeable post.
I'm an atheist but honestly .. Atheism is just as ridiculous as any religion. We don't have proof of anything, not even the big bang theory or even the theory that there is nothing after life.
I think you should stop a second and ask yourself how much certainty your own religious perception has before ridiculing others with such an arrogant attitude.
I guess it fits some of the criteria, but since atheists dont worship anything, and atheism doesnt follow rituals and we dont have holy materials such as the cross, hijab or holy places like Golgata it does not fit the defenition of religion, according to the seven dimensions of religion.
I beg to disagree. Atheists are all about math and science.
Atheists worship math and scientific methods. Experiments require a strict ritual, otherwise the data is flawed. Their holy materials are high end computers, calculators, etc. Their hijab is their lab coat. Their holy place is the lab. I mean.... ;)
No they're not , again another definition for you , it's another tricky one so if you wish get some help in comprehending what this difficult ( for you ) term really means ....
atheist
ˈeɪθɪɪst/
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
No , that again is your definition which is merely the inane ramblings of your limited brain .....let's attempt to again educate you .. warning it's a tough one but here we go an accepted definition ....
religion
rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions"
Try really hard and you may eventually get it .... I'm rooting for ya :)
I'm an atheist who doesn't worship math or science; does this make me an heretical atheist? I do own a lab coat, though, so I'm more observant than some atheists. Right? Do I still get atheist communion (which is probably, like, IMing or something)?
No most everyone disagrees with your reidiculous assertion , here is an accepted defifintion just for you ....
religion
rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions
I know it's tricky but keep reading that and you may get it :) , of course it could all be a big conspiracy by dictionary writers who don't like you couldn't it ?
I know you're not :) you cannot educate pork ... and thank you but it's not a matter of me talking a great game it's just me giving you what most the world accepts as a correct definition :)
You defend your claim by observing that we cannot prove anything about atheism. I will set aside for the moment your conflation of atheism with science and other extra-atheistic beliefs, because my interest is in your larger claim. Proof bears an apparent relation to the relative ridiculousness you ascribe to belief, which suggests that to you what is ridiculous is that which is irrational or unreasonable. Yet I do not see that it follows that a lack of certainty in knowledge renders the holding of a belief unreasonable.
For instance, I would not think it unreasonable if Jordan disbelieves in unicorns but believes in apples because while they cannot be certain on either point they have some cause to consider both more likely true than not on the basis of available information and cognitive capacities. I suspect that most people would agree with me on this, if for no other reason than that construing both of these as unreasonable leaves us with a very meaningless word indeed (i.e. what use is the concept of reasonableness to us if we call everything unreasonable simply because our knowledge can never be certain). What is reasonable is not the same as what is known with certainty.
On the basis of the information and faculties afforded to us, atheism is not nearly so ridiculous as any religion. This follows from the rather simple reason that it has fewer premises to defend. It's position is he mere negation of a general concept: god. A religion, by contrast, expresses not only a positive belief in a god (or gods) but also numerous additional beliefs about that god (or gods).
Further, upon historical reflection we have some grounds to consider all religions as being invented by people and this itself suggests the concept of god too may be of human origin. Should something beyond our conception exist to which we might ascribe our concept of god, that ascription could be reliably predicted to fall short enough of capturing its object as to make it an indefensible ascription. This is, of course, not an especially strong case but when it is compared against the numerous and entirely baseless assumptions of any religion it is sufficient to satisfy a standard of reason. Just as it would be in the case of unicorns or leprechauns.
-----
And all that aside, an atheist who assumes their belief in full cognizance that they cannot prove it is fair in ridiculing a theist who assumes their belief without such cognizance.
I would not think it unreasonable if Jordan disbelieves in unicorns but believes in apples
Well I could be more clear on that of course. In my opinion atheism is not just disbelief in a supernatural being alone. Atheists also have their theories on what comes after death, or how this universe was created, and although there are many different versions, I've not met any atheist who with complete certainty could prove his beliefs
Agnosticism is the most reasonable religious perception, because it is, like you said, about disbelief in unicorns and whatnot.
Well, of course if you define atheism as something its not then it'll match your spin on it. That's not actually inherent to atheism though, just as it isn't inherent to religious agnostics that they're agnostic about everything else. They've got beliefs they can't prove too.
And I've already addressed why certainty isn't requisite for reasonableness. Given that you seem to have misunderstood my argument that used the unicorn example, you might want to reread more closely.
I agree that some posts are just asking for ridicule. Posts, for example, which assert that welcoming forums are created by a relative absence of moderation. Because the end and function of moderation and rules is definitely to create hostile environments.
