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Debate Info

37
49
I agree. I disagree.
Debate Score:86
Arguments:135
Total Votes:91
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Argument Ratio

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 I agree. (32)
 
 I disagree. (46)

Debate Creator

KJVPrewrath(979) pic



Is abortion murder?

Use contraception, or close your whore legs. I hate baby murderers. This is an abortion murder: https://media4.picsearch.com/is?hq2CD6gO7tlQpEitEo-0J1OnFPjTJg0DMcPfLw-Mk8o&height=194

I agree.

Side Score: 37
VS.

I disagree.

Side Score: 49
3 points

Premeditated, cold blooded murder in the first degree.

While the embryo is struggling for survival within the mother's womb it's life is violently snuffed out by callous unfeeling murders.

Side: I agree.
John_C_1812(276) Disputed
1 point

Oddly again abortion is a self-incrimination to murder only, There is a clear limit. It is then applied to only one of the official ends of life being made by sexual intercourse. The Presidential state of the union here is that all sperm introduced by a male, then swim by placement then their own power towards one embryo. This is a race in the course of human nature for life and death, and a woman’s body cannot be held in religious contempt for not provide ample embryo’s to accommodate every sperm.

Gender specific amputation creates an impartial understanding that the woman to become mother cannot be instantly alienated legally by the wining of a mass life and death struggle that ends with just one outcome.

Rights Reserved. but serve as no restriction to common defense of the general welfare.

Side: I disagree.
JustIgnoreMe(3584) Clarified
1 point

I think you may have had a stroke - please seek medical attention.

This is not meant to be mean - the words that you are writing literally don't make sense, and you are disputing someone who seems to have your same position.

Side: I agree.
John_C_1812(276) Disputed
1 point

There is a lack of sufficient impartial United State to share with all woman when using the word abortion. Female Specific Amputation is the United State interpretation of constitutional understanding to establish a single United State that can be put together. Without the use of crime. Not only between all woman, but between all people of all Nation. As this description does not asked that people to will part of any intellectual convert global act of Civil War. There is no seeking of public approval by self-incrimination made at any point

Side: I disagree.
1 point

Indeed

Side: I disagree.
2 points

The baby is an alive human being so yes it is murder .

Side: I agree.
1 point

If you shoot someone in self-defense, are they an alive human being?

Is it murder?

Side: I disagree.
TRS13gd(12) Disputed
1 point

Murder is killing a human being purposely with the intention to end his life. Self-defense is preventing oneself from physical harm where the intention is to stay safe from a threat.

If you shoot someone in self-defense, it's not murder since you just want to defend yourself. But here, abortion obviously involves a deliberate attempt to end someone's life. Therefore it's murder.

Side: I agree.
2 points

Abortion is murder since you are killing a separate human being

Side: I agree.
1 point

Self-defense is killing a "separate human being" - is it murder?

Side: I disagree.
luckin(176) Clarified
2 points

That depends on what you mean by murder. Self-defense is not a reasonable argument for abortion

Side: I agree.
1 point

.

Abortion is for sure murder if The Child can feel the pain and has a heart beat.

I believe that abortion is ok at the first few days after conception.

It is just tiny seed that has no consciousness and is not a baby yet.

Side: I agree.
JustIgnoreMe(3584) Clarified
1 point

can feel the pain

At what gestation do you think pain can be felt?

the first few days after conception

Most women will not know they are pregnant until weeks after conception.

Side: I agree.
1 point

By Merrian Webster, abortion is defined [1] as “the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus.”

Several references [2][3][4] suggest that human life begins at conception or fertilization, a process where the human being emerges as a zygote, whose formation is taken as the beginning of embryonic development.

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

[2] https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

[3] https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins

[4] https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/yw397w/government-hhs-now-says-life-begins-at-conception

Therefore we can conclude that abortion is a murderous act since it involves deliberately killing a human being in the womb.

Side: I agree.
1 point

abortion is a murderous act since it involves deliberately killing a human being

If you kill someone in self-defense, it that murderous?

Side: I disagree.
TRS13gd(12) Clarified
1 point

Murder is killing a human being purposely with the intention to end his life. Self-defense is preventing oneself from physical harm where the intention is to stay safe from a threat.

To answer your question, it's not murder as long as you don't intend to end someone's life. But abortion obviously involves a deliberate attempt to end someone's life. Therefore it's murder.

Side: I agree.
1 point

Indeed

Side: I agree.
1 point

"Women have a right to their bodies"

As women, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement, but once you have a living baby or a fetus(with potential for life) in your womb, it is no longer just your body. And don't give me some shit about rape cause less than 1% of abortions are rape. Nevertheless, abortion is murder in all cases (except where the baby poses a risk to the mother) and should be illegal.

Side: I agree.
1 point

I don't think it matters if it can be labeled as murder, but whether it can be labelled as morally wrong. Murder is just a word if you get my meaning.

Anyways, using google's definitions, if murder is "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another," then abortion is currently not unlawful in the US, and if a human being is

"a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance,"

then a fetus is not a human being. So abortion is not to be considered murder. There is little room for argument within these definitions.

Side: I disagree.
John_C_1812(276) Disputed
1 point

I will keep the dispute short. If a fetus is not a living human being why is the self-incriminating confession used to describe the official stop of something that is said never to have officially started? To me this describes Gender specific amputation not abortion.

Side: I agree.
John_C_1812(276) Clarified
1 point

Gender Specific Amputation is not abortion.

To clarify a woman’s right to gender specific amputation is Constitutional bound to her by the number of sperm, to the number of embryo that a woman is entrusted with by law of nature in the reproductive process. There is a United States Constitutional argument of common defense to the general welfare of all woman, not only the right of woman who wish to express authority over life.

We are instructed to believe that a woman should bear the sole self-incrimination when in fact a male having sex with her is sending more than just one living sperm to fertilize a single embryo.

Side: I agree.
Mack(534) Clarified
1 point

I'm not sure what you mean by "the self incriminating confession" in this context. I don't understand your question.

Side: I agree.
TRS13gd(12) Disputed
1 point

By Merrian Webster, abortion is defined [1] as “the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus.”

Several references [2][3][4] suggest that human life begins at conception or fertilization, a process where the human being emerges as a zygote, whose formation is taken as the beginning of embryonic development.

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

[2] https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

[3] https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins

[4] https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/yw397w/government-hhs-now-says-life-begins-at-conception

Therefore abortion is a murderous act since it involves a deliberate attempt to kill a human being who deserves to live, grow and prosper just like everyone else.

Side: I agree.
Mack(534) Disputed
1 point

Your source [2] states that the development of a human being begins at conception, in the same way the development of a car begins when the parts are made, but it isn't a car until the parts are assembled.

Your source [3] is from the reasonably biased american college of pediatricians, so it is untrustworthy.

Source [4] defines life as beginning at conception, not a human being, just some form of life.

I didn't fully read every source, so I may have missed something, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter whether abortion is murder. You must analyse why murder is morally wrong, and then decide if abortion meets those specific reasons. Claiming something is murder isn't enough.

Side: I disagree.
1 point

Murder is illegal killing. Abortion is legal killing.

If you say despite that fact then it is still murder then you also must believe self defense, police actions, war, euthanasia, high risk surgeries, are all murder, too.

Side: I disagree.

The word Abortion only describes a murderous act. A phrase like Gender Specific amputation does not.

Side: I disagree.

In addition to the reasons that abortion itself can be justified:

Self-defense - All pregnancies pose a risk to the mother.

Mercy - a fetus that is in pain and will not live.

Selective reductions - from triplets to twins, or twins to a single, etc. - to improve the overall chances for those remaining.

-------------------------

There are additional arguments against making abortion illegal:

-------------------------

Ineffectiveness:

"Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates." (ref)

Laws making it harder to get abortions are making them happen later in the gestation, and are more dangerous/costly, etc.

Complexity:

The actual complexity of writing a law that applies for the range of possible circumstances:

Should selective reductions to improve the health of multiples be legal?

Should it be legal to protect the life of the mother? (how certain does the doctor have to be that death is likely?)

Should it be legal to protect the health of the mother? (how do you define "health" - severe organ damage? mental health?)

If a 10 year old is raped by an uncle and becomes pregnant - which is better: having the child or an abortion? Who gets to make the decision?

Should embryonic stem-cells be used for research or in curing diseases?

What about extra fertilized eggs created for in-vitro fertilization?

Would several forms of birth control pills, IUDs, etc. become illegal?

What penalties should be imposed on the woman, the doctor, other people who knew?

Enforcement:

Is it reckless endangerment for child-capable women to consume coffee/soda/tea, sushi/oysters/clams/mussels/crab, several types of fish, homemade ice cream, mayonnaise, lox, steak tartar, pâté, unpasteurized milk, soft cheese, deli meat, etc. etc.? If she has consumed any of these and has a miscarriage, is she guilty of negligent homicide?

Should all miscarriages be investigated as potential abortions/murders?

The cost of investigating all the new potential crimes and jailing of all the new criminals, etc.

Scarcity:

Are there lots of 9 month pregnant women getting abortions to fit into a dress for a party?

Alternatives:

Focusing on education about the responsibilities of sex, using protection, etc. reduces abortions.

An IUD program in Colorado was very successful at reducing both teen pregnancy and abortion rates (ref)

Side: I disagree.
KJVPrewrath(979) Disputed
1 point

I support free contraception for shit and giggles. Why do you think I had a bilateral salpingectomy. I support single payer healthcare, sex ed, oppose the death penalty, and all torture, oppose spanking children, support gun safety legislation, adoption rights for rape and domestic abuse victims, and fund contraception through Planned Parenthood. I'm just saying this to vomit my feelings on homicide and murder so I can stfu. My choice to have my tubes removed hurt my heart, but I did it so I would not need an abortion. God hates hypocrites and would hate me if I had an abortion instead of preventing conception. To see babies thrown away like trash kills my heart. Forced death is so sad. I DON'T BELIEVE IN FORCED BIRTH either, I just want women and girls to choose before conception. I want to say how sorry I am. I see my therapist tomorrow to taslk about it.

Side: I agree.
JustIgnoreMe(3584) Clarified
1 point

I agree with you on a lot of that.

I'll bring it back to my original question - is self-defense murder? Not all death is unjustified. When should a person have a right to self-defense?

God hates hypocrites and would hate me if I had an abortion

Then, you might be happy to know that the bible actually (conspicuously) doesn't say anything about abortion. (The verse in Exodus is about an accident, not an abortion, and is treated as a property crime against the father, not murder.)

I want to say how sorry I am.

No problem - I get passionate about things too - I don't take arguments here personally, nor should you.

Side: I agree.
John_C_1812(276) Disputed
1 point

You are not justifying the right to self-incriminate to officially stop life. There is no justification to what is being done using the wording abortion.. You are looking to incriminate all others to the crime and simply have no idea you are putting them at risk of becoming an accessory to the confession made. A justification to abortion is gender specific amputation as the official end of life must be proven and is not required automatically by all woman as self-incrimination.

Side: I agree.
KJVPrewrath(979) Disputed
1 point

If the lady was raped, or the mother has medical problems. Otherwise, I agree.

Side: I disagree.
1 point

You are not justifying the right to self-incriminate to officially stop life.

Do people "self-incriminate" when they "officially stop life" in self-defense?

There is no justification to what is being done using the wording abortion..

I gave several - refute them if you can.

Self-defense - All pregnancies pose a risk to the mother.

Mercy - a fetus that is in pain and will not live.

Selective reductions - from triplets to twins, or twins to a single, etc. - to improve the overall chances for those remaining.

You are looking to incriminate all others to the crime

Your profile says you live in the US - abortion is not a crime in the US.

A justification to abortion is gender specific amputation

What you are trying to say is not clear.

Side: I disagree.