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Debate Info

215
262
Yes, I agree No, I disagree
Debate Score:477
Arguments:318
Total Votes:552
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 Yes, I agree (152)
 
 No, I disagree (166)

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Argento(512) pic



Meat is Murder!

This slogan basically advocates that since we have advanced enough to be able to live on other foods apart from meat,

then it is our moral obligation to stop killing animals for food.

Do you agree with this idea?

Is it our moral obligation to embrace veganism / vegetarianism?

Yes, I agree

Side Score: 215
VS.

No, I disagree

Side Score: 262
6 points

I wouldn't call it "murder", but I do believe that anything which causes undesired pain to a sentient being is wrong.

Killing an animal painlessly would be morally acceptable. But we don't kill them painlessly. In fact, due to the atrocious conditions maintained in the factory farming industry, the entire lives of millions of sentient beings are filled with suffering.

And everybody who says "oh, but it's natural" just has their head up their ass. Natural does not mean morally acceptable. Rape is natural -- doesn't make it ok. Why don't people get that?

Side: Yes, I agree
Mahollinder(893) Disputed
7 points

I wouldn't call it "murder", but I do believe that anything which causes undesired pain to a sentient being is wrong.

Meh, we're higher order animals. It's what we do. All predators do it: cause undesired pain to their prey, which are usually other sentient beings.

Killing an animal painlessly would be morally acceptable

Why is it morally acceptable to kill at all?

In fact, due to the atrocious conditions maintained in the factory farming industry, the entire lives of millions of sentient beings are filled with suffering.

So?

Why don't people get that?

Is a cheetah immoral for choking their prey to death or sometimes eating them alive? Do you yell at the discovery channel animals for doing what they do?

Side: No, I disagree
jessald(1915) Disputed
3 points

In other words, "it's natural."

Lame.

It's wrong to kill humans, even painlessly, because if we don't condemn murder then we will not be able to function as a society.

This same logic does not apply to animals, because we will still be able to function as a society even if we do massacre animals.

However there is a second aspect of morality at work here: Pain is bad and it should therefore be minimized.

Predators are not behaving immorally because they lack the intellectual capacity for morals.

Side: Yes, I agree
Bradf0rd(1428) Disputed
2 points

Meh, we're higher order animals. It's what we do. All predators do it: cause undesired pain to their prey, which are usually other sentient beings.

What exactly is a "higher order"? If you're saying as predators, let's see how well you fare in a pin with a leopard (or even in the wild, with a leopard). If you're talking about intelligence, why if we are so "high" in the order, are we still eating meat? There are plenty of healthy alternatives that cost much less in the way of work required, resources needed, associated pain, environmental impact, etc.

Is a cheetah immoral for choking their prey to death or sometimes eating them alive? Do you yell at the discovery channel animals for doing what they do?

Animals, like cheetahs, don't have a sense of morals... Humans do, and yet it seems to make little difference. Also, there isn't a cheetah grocery store to go to, and they are strictly carnivores, we are not. We have moral choice, many morally acceptable options that are just as good if not batter tasting, and we have the ability, physically, to choose... and you say that meat is perfectly acceptable?

How do you feel about cannibalism?

Side: Yes, I agree
3 points

I agree. And ya know what I say to people and get some nasty looks? "Why don't you go ahead and commit some cannibalism now?" I mean, seriously, so we're the highest order of species, why waste already dead human bodies, too, and eat them instead of letting them rot into Earth while there's still millions of people starving? So, it's "immoral" to eat an already dead human for meat, but it's "natural and OK" to brutally kill animals for meat? Whatever. I don't think it has anything to do with morals to not eat a human, but rather because we're mentally trained to think it's disgusting and crass to eat another human, and it's OK to kill and eat animals, PERIOD. Most people are also mentally trained to believe in God and Jesus and church and worship (and on and on and on), but does that mean it's the "Right" thing? Not really.

:-)

Side: Yes, I agree
Argento(512) Disputed
2 points

I have read all your arguments with a lot of attention cause for a long time I have wanted to understand the mentality behind this slogan.

I would like to point out that first you stated that Killing an animal painlessly would be morally acceptable, but you then took that back and said that killing is wrong regardless. I would also like to point out that modern day slaughter houses have made the process extremely quick and as painless as it can get (after all we are killing them), in any case it's a lot more humane and a lot less torturous than it would have been in the wild.

My last point is this: Morality is a very fickle thing, it changes all the time. Your opinion and arguments about this is only valid for as long as you live near a super market where you can buy your variety of vegan alternatives. If you were to go visit an African village where you either eat the killed pray or you starve to death, you would be singing a different tune. Am I wrong? Or if you were to go live with the Eskimos, and fish is your primary food source. Somehow, killing that fish doesn't sound so wrong, does it?

So the killing of animals for food is not a fundamentally wrong thing to do, after all.

This "moral obligation" attitude only comes to play once we advance to a level where you can choose to not eat meat without any consequences. But just because you can choose, doesn't mean that you have the moral obligation to make the choice. And to take the moral high ground and preach onto others is extremely self righteous and arrogant, especially as you would be very willing to eat meat if you had to eat it in order to live.

Just be thankful that you have the choice.

Side: No, I disagree
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

I think you have misunderstood me. I think killing animals is wrong because it causes pain. I think killing humans is wrong regardless.

And modern day slaughterhouses are a grotesque abomination. See: http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Factory_farming_needs_to_be_reformed

Some aspects of morality are fickle, others are strongly grounded in fundamental principles. If I had to kill to eat, I would. I would be committing evil, but that evil would be justified.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

personally,I don't eat meat,I don't enjoy eating it and I know I'd never be able to kill an animal myself.BUT Were all animals! we just think were better than the rest!they do it to each other,why shouldn't we join?personally,I love animals and I wish they wernt being killed for food but I accept it because I know that it's part of what we do,from the very beginning.in saying that,alotof people cross out many animals for food and I don't understand it,why do some live to die and others live to be preserved forever?if it's okay to eat pig and Cow it should be okay to eat horse and dog.

I don't believe animal slaughter is right as I believe we have anequal right to live as they do but i believe its and also,we can live without them in our diet,were just selfish and enjoy them too much!

Side: Yes, I agree
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
0 points

You seriously need to eat a double bacon cheeseburger. ..................

Side: No, I disagree

However you slice it, whatever your moral/ethical feelings are towards this, eating meat is directly causing the end of multiple sentient lives. Ending sentient life is murder. Simple.

Side: Yes, I agree
3 points

I think that meat is murder! What gives us the right as humans to take the lives of innocent animals for our own selfish needs? There are so many other alternatives yet we choose to kill others to live ourselves. Animals live breathe and feel just the same as us humans do they just cant cry out in pain as we would. But they do feel pain and they shouldnt have to because of us!!!

Side: Yes, I agree
benbw(3) Disputed
1 point

What gives animals the right to kill each other? It's just survival of the fittest. Don't get me wrong, how animals are slaughtered is repulsive, wrong, and should be fixed. But if we didn't kill animals at all, they would rapidly overpopulate because of how we disrupt the natural food chain, and complete with us for space and resources. Meat may not be necessary for sustenance, but death is just part of the development of life on earth.

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
2 points

Our ways of killing animals are unnatural, and unfair. Does the lion hold a slaughterhouse for the zebra? No.

Side: Yes, I agree
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

Animals kill each other because they lack the mental capacity to do anything else. We as humans are capable of choosing not to cause pain.

Animals could never compete with us for resources. We've got guns. If a vegetarian had to make a choice between a human dying and an animal dying they would kill the animal. (Well, maybe some fringe lunatics wouldn't, but the vast majority would...)

Practically all of the meat that we eat comes from animals that we breed. Hunting is something done mainly for recreation and is outside the scope of vegetarianism.

Side: Yes, I agree
Spoonerism(831) Disputed
1 point

Have you never killed a spider? Cockroach? Mosquito? If so, was it for a selfish human need?

I don't know that there's anything wrong with killing other animals for our own needs, though it is wrong to kill for sport. The way an animal is killed and the freedom it was given in life is what matters.

Side: No, I disagree
nagtroll(274) Disputed
1 point

The difference is they are stupid animals, while you are a stupid human. Or did I get that wrong? You are a stupid animal too then? Bwahahahaha.

And you actually believe you have a right to tell other people what to do and what to eat and not eat? You know what you are? You are a bully. That's right, you are a bully who tells other people what they should or shouldn't do. And you actually think anyone will respect you? HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHa.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOL

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
0 points

Idiot. We're bullies because we're saying murder is unacceptable. Ha! Really get new ideas.

Side: Yes, I agree
itsnotright(24) Disputed
1 point

Ok. I am not religious by any means but I do know for a fact that the Bible clearly says God created all cloven hooved animals for the benefit of man. Although, judging by some of the comments on here, the majority of you are atheist, maybe Buhddist. By the way. Meat IS murder....Tasty Tasty murder! I love my bovine, swine, poultry, fish, fowl, venison (that's any of the cervid species), and crustaceans. TED NUGENT ROCKS!

Side: No, I disagree
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

We have the right of domain over animals. Animals don't have souls a dog doesn't even know it's dog or any animal even know what it is. If you are starving and are out in the wild any walking animal that is not human i guarantee that you would look at any animal as dinner in order to survive.

Side: No, I disagree
3 points

I wouldn't phrase it that way because it is too general but i agree with the idea. I think the way animals are bred, raised, and killed is morally wrong. Anything that eats meat could be considered a murder and people can eat meat but that doesn't mean people need to eat meat.

The fact that humans don't need to eat meat yet advocate and support the mass production and killing of various animals is cruel and obsessive.

Real carnivores and omnivores can eat meat raw without getting sick. They also enjoy eating raw meat. They are not repulsed by the idea of eating a dead animal if they pass it.

The human anatomy is not specialized for eating meat it is just able to cope with it. That doesn't mean it is natural for a human to eat meat such as a hamburger or grilled chicken. http://www.earthsave.ca/articles/health/ comparative.html has further explanations about the human anatomy's lack of optimization for eating meat.

Humans are willing to eat meat because once it's cooked it tastes good. Also humans generally don't catch their own pray and gut it and prepare to eat. They don't see the slaughterhouses. Infact humans are so far removed from the meat making process that they can't truly know how much of what they are eating is any certain type of meat or additional organic materials. They don't see the mass blood, sickness, weakness, or pain that is associated with slaughterhouses.

Killing any living thing without need is wrong and to induce suffering while killing that being is even worse. So yes meat is murder, because humans can easily survive without meat and are actually healthier when they do.

Side: Yes, I agree
3 points

The title assumes that murder is wrong, which it is not.

As said by I don't know how many, the example of a predator killing a weeker animal is not immoral, because the predator has no capacity for empathy.

Problem is, we do. So what do we do about it?

Right now what we do is ignore it, and say it's okay because we're the predator and we observe in nature that this is what predators do.

I would argue that we should try to hold ourselves to a higher standard than this.

Does it really matter if we do?

Probably not, but that does not mean that we should not at least try to kill the food we eat with as little pain as possibe, and it also does not mean we should not attempt to allow our prey to live in comfort for whatever amount of time we give them here.

However, saying that, it is important that we as humans understand that other humans are more important than animals.

I love my tortoises. But if a human being is starving, and in some post-apocolyptic world there is no other means of sustanance, guess what, my great little toroises have to die.

This is where the far left occassionally takes it too far. Humans are more important than animals. End of story.

At the other end though. Just because we can kill whatever we want without penalty, and just because we sometimes do kill whatever we want, does not make it morally okay.

There has to be a level of understanding of what it means to be human and have self-awareness, I find many on both sides lack this completely, making me wonder if we really aren't just "predators" who by coincidence have extra large brains.

Side: Yes, I agree
3 points

I think so, yes. The meaning of murder though, at least as it is in the Oxford American Dictionary, involves premeditated killing of another human, but why differentiate between an animal that isn't human and humans? It's a superficial (purposeful) misunderstanding that keeps a lot of "unimportant" cases out of court.

Murder is the premeditated killing of any animal. The thought of killing a process, (consciousness in any form at all) is murder. This is even true for plants, though the severity differs greatly because plants aren't (as far as we understand the idea), conscious.

The problem is in the industry though, not the act of eating animals. It's human, to eat meat, but it's not human to treat meat as nothing more than a Big Mac. What I mean by that is, people used to respect animals and feel pain for each animal's death. Native Americans would purposely use every part of an animal that they killed to make it's death as meaningful to people as possible. There were spiritual aspects involved, but I feel the principle is most important.

We treat animals like shit now, if not worse. We raise them with the idea that they will all one day be shat out by someone a number of hours after being tasted. They are slaughtered without regard, which is understandable because of the emotional damage you would put yourself through if you had to slaughter so many a day... you would go insane, if you cared about each of them as your own pets...

Eugh, well my cat just died yesterday and I've been drinking to compensate for his loss... even though he was just a cat. Maybe I shouldn't be talking about the treatment of animals right now...

Side: MY CAT IS DEAD AND I MISS HIM FFFFuuuuuu
3 points

who would ead his or her pet ? can your really say there is no other choice but to eat meat ? the basis of cruelty is not seeing it.

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

I wouldn't call it "murder", but I do believe that anything which causes undesired pain to a sentient being is wrong.

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

Yes it is. Fortunately, I don't care and I am able to enjoy the delicious flavour of a thick bloody steak or a braised veal shank.

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

Firstly, I really want to stress that human beings are NOT meant to eat meant(Naturally). You can double check this with any biologist. It can be told from our teeth structure, which indicates the kind of foods our body was meant to eat, and meat is NOT one of them.

Secondly, meat is not just killing animals, but also killing us! Every year, to meet the consumers' demands, lots of animals are brought up. The first problem, is that the animals will have to get food from plant sources(usually), however, cutting down greens will mean that there are less plats removing carbon from the air. Secondly, animals also give out alot of methane, which like carbon dioxide, enhances the green house effect, contributing to global warming.

On the other hand... well, its true... eating meat has become part of our life, so taking meat away is, and will be a difficult task.

Side: you cant say no to chicken nuggets
itsnotright(24) Disputed
1 point

Another hippie huh? Alright, I'll say it again. The Bible says God made all cloven hooved animals for the benefit of man. The beast of burden ring a bell? That's right, any and all cloven hooved animal. If you are at a loss?.... Any bovine, swine, cervid, ( cow, sheep, goat, pig, venison [deer, elk, caribou, reindeer, antelope, moose, impala, gazelle, etc.]). Secondly, the offset of oxygen to carbon dioxide and methane is so minimal it pales in comparison to the overpopulation and ridiculously large amounts produced by big cities. Global warming? HAH! Another falsehood in the long list of propaganda brought forth by self proclaimed scientists. But if you are truly concerned? As Ron White put it.."I'm Doin' MY Part By Eatin' The Cow."

Side: No, I disagree
2 points

Yes, it sure is. WHY? you might ask well, i can answer that.

Factories that manufacture meat and diary treat the animals like....well crap.

Animals are kicked, hit, squished to death, stabbed while alive and torture.

The animals are later affected by disease of the unclean environment that they are putted in. Who eats does animals? PEOPLE. Many, as in a lot of companies have this "meat" then manufacture into stores. Basically people eat meat that has been in crap and has diseases, that were adopted from the environment were it was once alive.

In order for this not to be consider murder, factories need to use less t torture ways to kill the animals. For example instead of having them to suffer alive threw all this thinks is to just use paralyzing so they can't feel pain. This workers are to cruel to the poor animals.

Truth about meat
Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Well, by definition.

I eat meat still =)

...........................

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

i think the conditions in which we kill and eat animals is brutal and wrong for a long while animals have sustained us and though some people say that its fair because we dominate well maybe we don't deserve to dominate... we are destroying the entire world hundreds of thousands of species and we are the only one that destroyed and continue to destroy everything else, including ourselves, all the technology and skills and brains we have we managed to screw everything up just because animals don't know how to drive a car or turn on the sink doesn't mean we have the right to treat them this way it means they aren't polluting and wasting water i think that now days we have the means to live a long healthy life without eating as much meat as we do it is natural to eat meat but it is also natural to go out and catch it not go though a driveway! that does not mean your gonna go out in the wilderness with only your handmade weapons to get a primal burger because we don't have to... and we don't have to eat as much meat as we do we are treating the animals brutally and it is wrong

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Killing animals is definitly murder because there are so many alternatives to iron and protein such as beans, nuts, eggs, spinach etc... Killing animals is not nessicary.

Side: Yes, I agree
churchmouse(328) Disputed
1 point

Have you ever stepped on an ant? Gone fishing and used a worm for bait? Hit an animal while driving your car? Swatted a fly? Smash a mosquito? Stepped on some creature and smushed it when you walked in grass?

If you say killing an animal for meat is murder than all that i just desribed is wrong and murder on the same level.

I do not believe that killing something and causing pain is right...but in a society that puts animals on the same level as humans, I cant consider this murder. Some people say it is murder because the animal can not give consent. Well then abortion is murder as well because the human life in the womb cant give consent either.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Humans are perfectly capable of surviving on a diet that consists of fruit and vegies. We don't need meat in out diet, you can easily supplement those foods.

Saying that animals are killed more brutality in the wild is not true, the animals will have a free life then suffer a short death. The animals that are killed for meat are tortured from birth. Whether or not they are killed painlessly or not it shouldn't matter. Pigs have a brain capability equal to a 3 year old, and the way pigs are treated disgusts me. So unless killing 3 year olds "painlessly" becomes legal, killing anything painlessly or not is wrong.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

With all the evidence gathered in "The China Study" the video "forks over knives" first for our health we should switch but I don't advocat that "meat is murder" in the criminal sense, I just believe we don't need to kill animals to survice. It would also be more efficient worldwide to save the protein for people instead of feeding it to animals and then kill them.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Yes, it is unfair to carry on killing for some twisted people's pleasure. I can't eat meat, being wicce, but I rally don't think I'd want to.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Yes, even though I eat meat and I don't mind, in the back of my mind, I know that if it's at least wrong to me.

Animals eat animals is a fact, so there's nothing truly wrong about it, but if I had more of a choice/lived by myself, I would try to mainly eat non-animal products.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

This is a poem that I really like and that I think it tells the truth. "If animals could talk what do you think they would say. More than likely it would be please stop abusing me this way. But animals cannot talk so for them we must speak. They are poor, helpless, and weak. They cannot care for themselves or get their own water and food. Please don’t hit me again. I promise to be good. Don’t leave me tied to this tree. I need freedom to roam. Can’t you see? I have never hurt you so what is it that I have done? I only want to play and have a little fun. I am an animal but I can feel pain too. Please don’t abuse me I just want to love you." By: Lori Beeler

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Animals are just like humans, they are just less developed mentally. Killing animals for any reason is wrong. Imagine you were a chicken and you get squished in cages. Then after 16 weeks you go to the factory to get your head cut off. If that was your entire life how how would you feel about it

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Not really a moral obligation (morals are labels).

There is a financial component. Energy transfer is about 10:1 for each higher level. Since basic industry has a lot of waste, husbandry is more like 50:1. We could easily feed the world if everyone gave up husbandry.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

It depends. But I am going to stick to this side because most humans are eating meat unnecessarily. The animals go through so much pain we can't even comprehend! We are living in an advanced generation where we can easily live off plants. We are eating meat because we value our taste buds over the animals life. The pleasure you get is more important than the animal suffering. So I say its murder.

Side: Yes, I agree
8 points

Pssshh.

Meat is murder, but hey, it's natural. We eat meat, we also eat plants. We shouldn't eat as much meat as we do, and we should treat our live stock better. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't eat meat. It's part of of our natiral diet.

Side: No, I disagree
4 points

Why cause unnecessary suffering? If it is easy (easier, actually) for humans to prosper and flourish without meat, why go ahead and cause unnecessary suffering?

Side: Yes, I agree
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
9 points

We're predators, sweety.

Have you ever seen the Lion King? Because it really is the circle of life, and it moves us all. Would you rather feed a lion tofu? Would you like sharks to go around chanting, "fish are friends, not food!"? Or would you like to embrace the real world that we all know, love, and evolved into?

Because Disney mimics life, life doesn't mimic Disney.

Side: No, I disagree
DaWolfman(3321) Disputed
1 point

then have the world overrun with animals? Humans are the biggest consumer of meat in the world. Get rid of that and what do you have?

If we got rid of spiders we'd be overrun with insects. The idea is ludicrous and flat out stupid.

Side: No, I disagree

You said it, sistahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

yeah meat is murder but it is the way of life. how we do things is how we do things. im not saying murder is right but im not saying no body should eat meat people should eat what they want to eat as long as they are not breaking any laws.

Side: No, I disagree
5 points

Yes, animals are alive, but so are plants! So suggesting that meat is murder would also say that vegetables are murder. Therefore, we shouldn't eat any food and we should remove ourselves entirely from the food chain!

Side: No, I disagree
jessald(1915) Disputed
4 points

       

Vegetables are not sentient. Animals are.

Side: Yes, I agree
MKIced(2483) Disputed
3 points

Plants have a nutritive soul and they react to different stimuli, like light, wind, and temperature. They can also grow in different directions depending on these factors and most are grown against gravity, in fact. They may not be sentient, as animals are, but they can still "feel" and react.

Side: No, I disagree
Constant(28) Disputed
1 point

Sentience is not defined as having a central nervous system. The vast majority of what we label as "animals" do not even have that.

The only animals that come close are the most developed mammals and some fish. Even then, there are not many mammals that we consume that could be considered to have any advanced thoughts.

Our major animal food sources: pig, chicken, cow, fish are not known to have any conception of who they are, what they are, or anything resembling the sentience that we have. They may be more intelligent than plants or insects, but sentience as it is generally understood is limited to humans strictly.

The best you could do is include some species of monkey or ape....which we don't generally eat.

Side: No, I disagree
shorty8876(13) Disputed
1 point

How do you know, vegetables and other plants respond to sound (music and conversation). The respond to touch (patience plant), they trap and eat prey (venus fly trap). They are aware of light and warmth. Because you cannot communicate with them does not mean they do not communicate with each other.

Side: No, I disagree
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
-1 points

How do you know? Have you ever tried to talk to a plant? Maybe they are suffering in silence when you rip them from their roots and throw them in a basket like holocaust victims thrown into pits.

Side: No, I disagree
ksllcc(4) Disputed
1 point

But when you look at it, plants don't scream out in pain like how animals do. They just die without screaming out in pain. So technically it's not murder. And I don't think that we humans hurt the plants or torture them before we eat them.

Side: Yes, I agree
Abacus(3) Disputed
1 point

Are screaming and pain your definitions of murder? If someone gives an overdose of heroin, the recipient dies without pain, but it is of course still murder.

Also, we don't torture our animals before we kill them. In fact, most animals killed for human consumption die quickly, which is more than happens in nature most of the time.

Side: No, I disagree
3 points

Bears eat moose and people so that means we need to turn bears into vegetarians aswell as any other carnivore.

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

Bears do not factory farm moose, and actually very rarely kill a moose- only eating unnatended young as an adult is fully capable of making micemeat of said bear.

Side: Yes, I agree
warpedbandit(2) Disputed
1 point

Incorrect. First of all, bears are naturally omnivores. Humans are naturally herbivores. Theyre bodies could not function normally without meat, while ours can. It's not their choice to become vegan, its our choice since we have millions of options while they don't.

Side: Yes, I agree
PhoenixHero(54) Disputed
1 point

We are naturally omnivores, not herbivores. Look at your teeth sometime. See those pointy ones? Those are meant for tearing MEAT.

Side: No, I disagree

I do think we eat more meat then we should but these last years have found us eating healthier foods in general. With the addition of poultry and fish added to our diets I think we've come a long way from the meat and potato meals many of us grew up with and even our snacks are healthier than ever. I don't think meat equals murder in any way since most meats are raised for human consumption and the supply is never depleted because of this. Meat, in adequate and reasonable amounts, balances our diet and it's not that we couldn't all be vegan's or vegetarians but why not eat the meat that is given to us via the age old system of supply and demand when being either of those doesn't appeal to our personal tastes.

Side: No, I disagree
3 points

I'm for eating meat, I'm for drinking liquid meat [milk].

Side: No, I disagree
3 points

war is murder!

all you vegetarians are an outrage! so you do not eat meat, hurray for you! I do not care what you eat to stay alive, after all everyone, including you, consumes the dead to stay alive! think about that for a minute. you eat how you want as will I. you don't need to throw a parade, I could care less, and so should you. worry about something important in life will ya? after all, if it weren't for a high protein meat eating diet, you would still be a monkey!

Side: No, I disagree
3 points

If eating meat is Murder , then we should all starve to death , a Plant is a living thing also , if you eat a plant then it is murder also.. Kind of dumb to think we should all eat man made crap to save a life of an animal and let nature takes it's course, when we are animals also and part of the food chain....

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

To factory farm and abuse, to render that what was once beautiful to a lifeless carcass. Nothing wrong with that idea?

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

Humans have been eating animals since the beginning of time. Meat is a very good source of protein. We could eat other things but meat is very accessible as well as good tasting. God gave us these animals for our survival, we need to respect the animals that we eat, in other words we should not kill more than we can eat.

Side: No, I disagree
jessald(1915) Disputed
2 points

Just because we've been doing it for a long time doesn't make it right. This is basically just saying, "it's natural," like everybody else on this side of the debate.

Protein powder is better than meat. It's cheaper, has no fat, and is designed to be more easily absorbed by your body. And it doesn't require the killing of animals.

Side: Yes, I agree
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
1 point

We should kill more than we can eat, but we shouldn't be stuffing it in our mouths either.

Animals were here before us. They weren't "given" to us.

Side: Yes, I agree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

Religions out of the equation, meat tastes horrible. It reeks of death and the residuals... I hated that my mother made me eat meat until I was fifteen, I still feel sick at the memory.

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

I think Donnie Darko can rap this up a bit. It's pointless to care about the death of an animal.

Yes, when torture of an animal occurs it's wrong because it's prolonged pain of a living creature. But just to kill it (for food, vanity or sport) is part of what makes us human. We dominate.

Side: No, I disagree
Nichole(689) Disputed
2 points

It's pointless, eh? So, have you actually never had a pet? And if so, when it died, you didn't care? How sweet.

Side: Yes, I agree
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
0 points

it's not like we don't care, but really. What point can you find? Animals are irrational, imbecile creatures that only know 4 things:

Mate Feed Kill Repeat. The simplicity of their life style invokes that death does not matter.

Side: No, I disagree
0 points

If you're against torturing animals, then you should be against the meat industry. Cows are hung upside down with their throats slit, left to bleed to death. Chickens have their beaks removed without anesthesia because they live in such cramped quarters that otherwise, they would attack each other. Veal calves are forced to live their short lives in stalls that aren't big enough for them to move, stand comfortably, lie down comfortably. Pigs are often killed by having their skulls smashed with blunt objects, a process that due to the lack of caring and knowledge of the slaughterhouse staff, often takes a long time. Lobsters are boiled alive. Did I cover enough of the meat industry to make clear the torture involved? Should I go on?

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

I eat meat, there's nothing wrong with it. I won't judge people who don't but there's wrong with it.

Side: No, I disagree
2 points

Get real !Get human! Eat a burger! Have you ever notice a humans brain function level who deprives their body of meat? it's like talking to a wet noodle. not to mention, without meat the brain funtion is also to passive for the ever natural aggressive nature of human kind! so you need to fight or flight, and without energy you can't do much of either one. by the way I love animals as much or more as the next!

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

I am an IB student, and love debating- wet noodle? I don't think so. Almost my entire IB German class is some kind of vegetarian, and they are all amazing and interesting people. Learn what you're talking about-really.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Wet noodle...interesting. Well, my brain hasn't had meat in 13 years, so here's the wet noodle talking back. I believe what you mean is that the iron and protein, as well as other nutrients, are key for optimal functioning, so it should be noted that any nutrients found in meat can be found in other sources as well. As for fight vs. flight, and your supposed lack of energy, I'd like to add in the concept of fitness and overall health. Vegetarians typically have lower cholesterol due to the lack of meat in their diet, so while fighting or fleeing, we'll keep going while you're keeled over from a heart attack.

Side: Yes, I agree
2 points

Murder is defined as an illegal activity. Eating meat in not illegal (well, except maybe cannibalism).

Obtaining meat does involve killing.

But so does eating vegetation and fungi.

Using antibiotics involves killing.

Every time you clean something you are killing countless microorganisms.

Life cannot be supported without killing.

Side: No, I disagree
2 points

I am not a vegetarian, so no, I disagree meat is not murder because why would it be so easily accessible and fulfilling as food as it is to people, if it was?

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

If meat is murder, then what does that make me for going to Wendie's and ordering the Baconator!?

(;

Side: No, I disagree

A Porkypooper?''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Side: No, I disagree
1 point
Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Meat is food. That is true. Some people do not understand that. And they are hypocrites and obnoxious boobs for trying to stop others from enjoying their food, and then they turn around and enjoy a guilty pleasure. Like chicken nuggets.

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

It's disgusting! It's dead bodies! Wake up, people!

.......................................................................

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

If we didn't eat meat, there would be way too many animals. How is it that we eat so much meat, yet none of the animals have population problems. Imagine the world if we couldnt kill animals for meat. And since you dont want to eat meat, then i guess you are against hunting. So without any hunting, imagine the world if animals couldnt be killed.

Side: No, I disagree
3 points

Well actually most meat people eat comes from animals raised for the sole purpose of consumption (cows, chickens, pigs, etc...). If people stopped eating meat, then there would be no reason for farmers to raise this livestock, and therefore would not exist at all. In this way, people eating less meat would mean less animals.

Where you are correct is with animals like deer, or other wild animals. Because most of the local predators for these animals have reduced populations, or in some cases are completely wiped out, there numbers probably would increase. When you factor in the amount of domesticated animals, however, there would more than likely be an overall decrease.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Is meat murder? We dont call the lion who ate the lamb a murderer. And I wouldn't call myself a MURDERER after eating the 500g texas Tbone I had for dinner tonight. MMMMMMMMMMMMMM . I consider this totally different to the unlawful killing of another human being. I think for breakfast I'll have myself a double helping of scrambled chook period. YYYUUUMMMMYY!!!

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

I feel sick... how can anyone possibly think that fried corpse is a delicacy? It's weird- completely horrible.

Side: Yes, I agree
PhoenixHero(54) Disputed
1 point

Would you rather he ate it raw?! How can you possibly feel sick about something that is literally ingrained in nature?

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

As long as they kill th anomals with a shock masine and it doesn't hurt. If they hurt the animal it is NOT ok.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

As long as they kill th animals with a shock Mashine and it doesn't hurt. If they hurt the animal it is NOT OK.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

No, meat is not murder. murder is murder. And meat is meat. And you can purchase both for the right price. But murder is immoral and wrong. But meat is not. But you will probably disagree.

Side: MY CAT IS DEAD AND I MISS HIM FFFFuuuuuu
1 point

You can't say no to chicken nuggets.

I already said this before in response to another argument, if you will call it that, really it was weak sauce, and weak sauce doesn't go well with anything really. But anyway I thought for the common good of the debate, I would include it separately so that if someone doesn't want to read all the debates, they can just scroll down and hit this one bam without having to click to see the argument. You know what I mean.

You can't say no to chicken nuggets.

Yes, they are loved the world over.

You can't say no to chicken nuggets.
Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Killing animals for food? Not necessarily murder. Hunter-gatherers took down the slow and injured of herds, as do natural predators, and no one calls that murder. However, factory farming is disgusting, cruel, and environmentally unsound. The "meat is murder" viewpoint is a luxury of modern farming, and those who do not have access to the resources we do need meat in their diet for protein; however, they kill and process it.

I think that to eat meat, one should have to process it him/herself, and be very aware of where it came from and how it lived, as well as make up for the carbon cost of eating it.

I must say that I do not do this myself, before anyone asks. And to some extent this is hypocrisy. Flay me for it, whatever.

Side: Not murder but environemtally unsound
1 point

At which point does killing become murder? You can obviously take the lives of fungi, bacteria, and plants without causing an uproar. For animals it's a bit trickier. Insects are ok to kill because they're a nuisance. But other animals aren't?

----------------------------------------------------

I don't have any problem with using animals for food. My problem lies in the fact that they aren't respected prior to the time we kill and eat them. I'd much prefer it if animals were given a lot of roaming space, were killed humanely, etc. I want an animal used for meat to be given the most natural life we can possibly give within a farm setting.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Meat is essential for proper balance of the food cycle.If we had stopped eating meat,I mean all of us.we would be disturbing our food cycle.

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

We've already disturbed the food cycle too much- we're barely part of nature any more.

Side: Yes, I agree

There is a place for all of God's little creatures. Right next to the mash potatoes and gravy. Animals. It's what's for dinner. ;)

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Meat is not murder. I do think that there has to be good conditions for animals on farms and for the majority of livestock they do it is so regulated and monitored that you would have to look hard to find unsuitable conditions in this day and age of big commercial farm.

Everybody is different with there bio chemistry if i could only eat plants and not meat I would but my system is built around meat I would become anemic if I did not eat meat and only plants.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Getting meat involves killing animals, but it doesn't constitute murder. Or at least it doesn't have to.

I acknowledge the fact that many companies at present kill animals inhumanely in order to harvest meat from them, but this is not always the case, and so I'm not going to label all killings as inhumane. There are fast, painless or nearly painless ways of doing this and they have been practiced for many years by a number of people.

Eating meat is also natural; the human body is omnivorous and able to eat both vegetation and meat, which means that there is a reason for the killing which (assuming it is done humanely) can justify it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat, but I do believe they need to impose stricter regulations regarding the treatment of these animals. The fact is that many people enjoy meat, regardless of the opinions of many vegetarians, and the most anyone can hope to change in this industry is to slightly lower the amount of meat consumed and the treatment of the animals up to and including the slaughter.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Immediately, it can be said that murder is a legal term applying to humans, and that it is not applicable to non-humans.

To discuss the morality of killing animals, that is up to how you define your own morals.

My personal opinion is that it is not wrong to kill animals, for sustenance or sport. It is also not wrong to kill plants, bacteria, et cetera.

If you claim killing animals is immoral, then it follows that killing plants is also immoral, because in both cases you are ending an organisms life.

Side: No, I disagree

Well, considering, humans are atop of the food chain, meat is hardly murder. It is food. Plants are alive just as much as animals. Is that murder?

CASE CLOSED!!!

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

It's not only murder, it's mass murder. Opression, slaves, all on the same basis- we're more powerful than you, so we can kill/enslave you because there's nothing you can do about it.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

If eating cow or pig is murder, then is a cat eating a mouse murder or is a lion eating a zebra murder? No, it is the survival of the fittest, so with our brains and tools, humans sit uptop of the food chain.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

God put animals on this earth for us to eat. We just have to do it humanely and make sure the animals feels no suffering. I mean, really. what sounds better... a juicy cheezeburger or some dried up mushroom on a bun?

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

I LOVE mushrooms, with herbs, or in a risotto...

There are so many alternatives to meat

Quinoa burgers

Soya mince burgers

Soya mince in soup

And they are all delicious

Side: Yes, I agree
PhoenixHero(54) Disputed
1 point

I have had all of those. They are nasty. Also, they are not as healthy.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Killing an animal for no reason what so ever is murder but if there is a reason like to survive as in eat then that's not murder. We eat meat to survive and yes we do have the capability to eat vegatables and plants but either way its the same bc if yuh think about it vegatables and plants are also living things. they grow and they live and then we kut them from their roots and they die. So is that murder? Bc thats pretty much the same thing if you think about it.

Side: No, I disagree
loganwhite(51) Disputed
1 point

you just said humans are superior, but you advocate an animals life now? get your story straight.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

Technically no. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. If we define murder as the act of killing than this would include veganism. Humans are omnivores by nature, we have teeth specially adapted to eat both animal and plant material, and are healthier if we eat both. Of course you can survive just fine on plant material alone, that is your decision to do so.

Side: No, I disagree

If only cannialism; otherwise, meat is food. Simple as that.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

No... It can't be and never will. You are referring to those certain other genetically modified food items that may replace the natural order of food? I doubt. We have screwed with the nature. We did a million things. Created machines that are helpful and yet leading us to a state that deteriorates our immunity power. We built tall buildings and underground wells that is increasing the chances of Earthquakes and do we still have to decide if eating flesh is going to disorder the environment? After all those disasters that we have created, it gives us no right to question a natural diet. Man... It is natural. How can you just someday sit and decide that your a vegetarian and your doing good! No your not...

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

were naturally omnivorous and hey survival of the fittest....technologically fittest.

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

Physically weakest. Look up de-evolution

Side: Yes, I agree
vandebater(444) Disputed
1 point

we are still the fittest. fittest doesn't mean physically fit, like a jogger say. Survival of the fittest mean "most fit to live" examples being rates of reproduction and reliable food sources. thats why some seemingly unfit creatures like bacterium or cockroaches are actually some of the most successful species alive.

Side: No, I disagree

Think about it if we didn't kill animals for meat, or anything for that matter, the whole world would be overpopulated with animals. Plus a lot of people wouldn't have jobs... so yeah... :D

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

Not true, we breed the animals we kill. Only fish are killed wild.

Side: Yes, I agree
1 point

I am not a vegetarian, so no, I disagree meat is not murder because why would it be so easily accessible and fulfilling as food as it is to people, if it was?

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

If meat is murder, then murder is delicious.

(I love the Colbert Report.)

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

How is meat the unlawful killing of another person?

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Humans are built to process meat. Eating meat is needed for brain growth and development. There are no vegans that are healthy without taking supplements. There are even some enzymes that the human body needs that you can only get from meat or milk. A good example is tryptophan. If you don't get it you will die and you can only get it from meat or milk.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Then how do we survive plants have meat too do your research you bum

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

What u need to do is simmer down, take a breather, go to your nearest steak house, order the biggest bestes steak on the menu, grab a fork and knife, and take a bite. If that delicious piece of cow doesnt make your teeth chatter.....blasphemy I say. But if it doesnt, pull yo skirt down and realize that they are animals. And they are not to be compared to humans. Besides, If a hungery lion saw you walking around in his hood, he would go to town on yo ass, literally. He'd grab his lion fork and lion knife, tell his wives and kids to go stand in the corner until he got done, and chew you until you stopped screaming. Then his family would hav a go. They would have a family picnic feeding on your entrails. So humans have to be stuck eating plants while all the other animals get to eat meat. Even some plants eat meat for goodness sake. Now hunting for sport, I dont really get.

Side: No, I disagree

meat is in no way murder. Are animals murderers? Is killing something you wish to eat unlawful?

If eating meat is amoral why is eating a plant any better?

Side: No, I disagree

Murder is strictly defined as a human illegally and intentionally taking the life of another human. Even a human taking the life of another human is not always murder; we have terms like manslaughter (voluntary or involuntary) and other terms that we use when killing the victim was not the intent, and we also differentiate between premeditated murder and crimes of passion as well. It's also not murder when a soldier kills an enemy soldier in wartime.

But ultimately, it comes down to the first line- murder is strictly defined as a human illegally and intentionally taking the life of another human. As noted, not all cases of humans killing humans are murder. Exactly zero cases of humans taking the lives of non-humans are murder, by the very definition of the word.

I understand the emotional zeal that is felt by those who consider killing animals to be abhorrent- I really do. But making claims like 'meat is murder' doesn't help your case at all- if you're hoping to sway meateaters, painting a portrait of them alongside some of the worst criminals of mankind doesn't help anybody- it's abusive and puts them on the defensive.

Less offensive terminology used against minorities have been considered hate crimes. Think on that before you start throwing labels around. If you're really hoping for change, being militant about it is only going to enforce the 'crazy vegan' stereotype that is already out there. Better to attempt to garner compassion than try the route of personal attacks.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Hey Vegans,

My food eats your food!

Hey Vegans,

My food eats your food!

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

It can't be murder since its legal to kill animals for food and Murder is illegal so....

Side: No, I disagree
Harvard(659) Disputed
1 point

Not if we modify the definition of murder to state "the killing of an innocent being."

Side: No, I disagree
Ornella(9) Disputed
2 points

Yeah but that's not the true definition he never said that when he wrote murder you could modify it and I'm pretty sure he meant the " illegal killing" type of murder anyway

Side: Yes, I agree
Atrag(5445) Disputed
1 point

arrrrgghh!!! I've just been murdered! But only if we change the definition to 'the slight annoyance of a human being.'

Side: Yes, I agree

Meat is the best place to get all 9 essential amino acids to make a complete protein. We can get this from other food sources yes but they arent easy to cultivate nor do we have the means to cultivate them to provide 7 billion people with all of the incomplete proteins to make a balanced diet. Meat is easy to produce, wholesome, and natural. So long as the animal is not unnecessarily injured in the butchering process i have no qualms with eating meat.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

The legal definition of murder is, "killing another human being with malice aforethought."

Killing animals for meat is not murder

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Accidental copy - please ignore (I hate this character minimum... People who want to ignore it just spam characters, what's the point?)

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

To what moral basis are you referring? According to Darwinism (this isn't a slam, just a literal truth), animals are no more than organic machines. Under Monotheistic ideology, consuming meat (at least, certain types of it) is perfectly fine.

Side: No, I disagree
-1 points

It's natural for one animal to eat another. It's only fitting that we stuff animals by the millions into slather houses!

Side: No, I disagree
Elvira(3447) Disputed
1 point

Evil bastard.

And that's the first time I've ever swore at someone online- thus demonstrating my opinions of your stupid ignorant viewpoint.

Side: Yes, I agree
Ornella(9) Disputed
1 point

Bastard isn't swearing cunt,fuck,bitch,shit is not bastard also you could be lying that's it's your first time swearing also it isn't a swear word so...

Side: No, I disagree
PhoenixHero(54) Disputed
1 point

? He submitted a factual, logical viewpoint. All of the things he said were true. He did not insult anyone, he was not disrespectful, he simply voiced his opinion. Yep. That totally means he is an "Evil bastard" Brilliant.

Side: No, I disagree
-4 points
Tugman(749) Disputed
2 points

You need to work on what you say. The debate is actually a very interesting one and you just ruined the quality and purpose of this debate.

Side: Yes, I agree
nagtroll(274) Disputed
1 point

You ruined a perfectly good debate by bothering to respond to someone who as you claim is ruining the quality of the debate. So work on what you say before you say it or don't bother to say it at all. Do you get what I say? I don't think so, but I say it anyway.

Side: No, I disagree
1 point

Yes, you speak the truth. Couldn't say it better myself. But that will not stop me. High protein, as is found in meat, is essential for good nutrition.

Of course some animal farms are treating the animals not so great, but most people who criticize this are just hypocrites who go to Micky-D's and order super sized double cheeseburger and chicken nuggets. Or just order off the dollar menu. You know what I'm talking about.

Side: No, I disagree
jessald(1915) Disputed
-1 points

A vegetarian diet in no way leads to starvation or under-performance.

Side: Yes, I agree
benbw(3) Disputed
2 points

While he may have overstated in an extremely idiotic way, most animal protein is complete, meaning it has adequately proportioned amounts of all the amino acids, while many vegetable proteins do not.

Side: No, I disagree
nagtroll(274) Disputed
1 point

It does for SOME ppl and you have to be considerate of those ppl too.

You don't think so? Then what about the Eskimos? The Eskimos or Inuit as they call themselves lived exclusively off animal diet like seals, walrus, and birds with zero vegetables. That is because they had no vegetables at their climate. They needed to live that way to survive. If they tried to be vegetarians, they would die of starvation. Of course, today they have access to white man's food, and don't have to eat just meat anymore. Now they die of diabetes and alcoholism.

Meat a convenient and natural way to get that protein and it tastes good, not like those vanilla flavored protein shakes where they have to add vanilla to it because without vanilla it would taste so bad that people would never consume the stuff, let alone get near it.

But we both know that is beside the point, and that meat is not murder, but that murder is murder and meat is meat. Murder is immoral, while meat is just part of life. Anyone who says otherwise is most likely just a hypocrite who goes to Micki-D's and orders a big mac supersized with a large coke and side of fries, and 6 piece chicken nuggets, or just orders off the dollar menu. You know what I'm talking about.

you can't say no to chicken nuggets
Side: No, I disagree