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70
105
Should Should not
Debate Score:175
Arguments:87
Total Votes:207
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 Should (33)
 
 Should not (44)

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Nomenclature(1297) pic



Should Conservatives Be Ashamed Of Themselves?

Even if we are lenient and give these useless 4th century throwbacks a pass on their complete lack of empathy and understanding, they still come out on the wrong side of stupid. Even if we stretch reality far enough to assume for just a moment that their raging anti-Islamic views contain a shred of credibility, who in their right mind wants a war against an army which boasts one and a half billion soldiers? That isn't a war you can win. That's a war which is going to get everybody killed. 

Why are Conservatives afflicted with this horrific brand of arrogant stupidity?

Should

Side Score: 70
VS.

Should not

Side Score: 105
5 points

My dear boy, everyone on this earth should be ashamed of themselves.

We've all contributed to the destruction of our planet by sitting idly by and permitting such industrial giants as the petrochemical corporations make $billions from the manufacture and sale of plastic products and packaging, all of which helps to choke our oceans and poison our atmosphere.

Whilst we're being waylaid with left or right politics our world is dying at an ever accelerating rate.

Side: Should
3 points

@Antrim

Well put. I have seen you discuss this issue very robustly several times I can think of now (I am quite new to the forum relative to you).

I must say though, how does this comport with your "Free Market" Capitalism views? Do you take the stance that the consumers who support these industries are essentially the sole reason for their existence and thus it is the average person that should be looking in the mirror and taking a stand before pointing the finger elsewhere (at said corporations, ect.)? Also, if people refuse to take personal responsibility en masse, should we allow this extremely dangerous dynamic to run its course as the Free Market dictates?

Side: Should
Antrim(1311) Clarified
1 point

Hi x,

Thanks for your remarks.

I would respond to your query by stating that my 'green views are not in any way incompatible with my free market position.

Marketing with a capital M is having what people need or want, and not what you think they should want.

Selling with a capital S is convincing people to buy what you've got.

'People are the market and they, and they alone determine what the manufacturers make and how their products are packaged.

If we, the people mindlessly accept how the goods we purchase are made and packaged then we will, by default, condemn future generations to a toxic world where the oceans are poisoned with millions of tonnes of plastic waste, mercury and a witches brew of other pollutants.

The wearing of respiratory masks will become absolutely necessary every time we venture out into the lethal atmosphere of our towns and cities.

If the public, ( the market) can be made aware how they are sleepwalking towards the demise of their planet earth, they will demand more environment friendly manufactured goods and packaging processes.

The free market will then see the emergence of one or more forward looking corporations that will produce what the market( i.e, the buying public) want and they will temporarily capture most of whatever market sector they're in.

I say temporarily because the competition which exists within the free market would quickly adapt to the changing market conditions and before long the use of poisonous chemicals will either be eliminated or reduced to levels which the ecosystem can deal with.

We can all help to get the message to the corporate giants that they have been smoked out and must begin producing their goods using more environmentally friendly processes.

*THEY WILL REACT TO ''FREE MARKET FORCES'' BUT WILL NOT DO SO VOLUNTARILY.

Side: Should
1 point

@Nomenclature

I would much like to see you engage with Antrim's very sensible argument

Side: Should
Dermot(5181) Banned
2 points

Poor old “ comrade “Nom thinks communism is superior to capitalism because it heroically overcomes problems that do not exist in any other system.

Side: Should
ArnoDorian(56) Disputed
1 point

We all know conservatives are the ones destroying the environment. Conservative politics favor the corporate elite over the working class and conservatives deny climate change. You cannot deny this, conservatives don't give a fuck about the environment.

Side: Should not
1 point

sensible

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Side: Should not
ChriIsBored(35) Disputed
1 point

Okay why should we be ashamed? If somebody actually cares about it than do something about it. I honestly don't give a shit.

Side: Should not
2 points

Politics is politics. Everyone gets dirty and everyone has something to be ashamed of doing or allowing to be done.

At the present, many conservatives who would otherwise be fine people (the religious, the older generations, etc) not only placed a bombastic abrasive arrogant man-child into power in the name of conservatism but also have actively shielded him from scrutiny and accountability. Basically conservatives have aided and abetted: treason, graft, bigotry, and I'm sure a whole lot more.

You can be conservative, attack liberals, champion your political issues, etc, all of that is fine. But when you enshrine and protect a man whose behaviors virtually every day are an affront to what the religious and the older generations supposedly stand for you pass the threshhold where it can be dismissed as simply politics.

This is your man. You're in bed with him. You're the ones willing to look the other way while he screws everyone and steals their wallets. Don't worry, he'll get around to yours, too.

Side: Should
9 points

This is your man. You're in bed with him. You're the ones willing to look the other way while he screws everyone and steals their wallets. Don't worry, he'll get around to yours, too.

Last Dear Leader put us $20 trillion in debt. And no lib can even muster a whimper as to what the hell it was spent on.

Insurance premiums went through the roof and people with insurance couldn't afford a doctor, which is identical to having no insurance.

We never hit 3% economic growth in any year. Obama is the first President in U.S. history to never hit 3%. Trump hit 4% in his first year, with no prior 7 years of Presidential experience, and in a year that had an unprecidented armada of natural disasters. It could have been 5% or 6%.

He, Obama, essentially handed a weakened Iran $150 billion, $3 billion in cash.

Taxes are going down, wages are going up, companies are raising their minimum wage, and companies are passing out $1,000 and $2,000 bonuses like candy.

African American unemployment is the lowest in American history at 6%. It was 16% under Obama.

The stock market is up 40%. 40%!!!!!! It's at 26,000!!!!!! That means everyone's 401K retirement plans went through the roof.

Bush the clown. Do I need point out the housing crisis and mindless spending that started this debt freak show?

Whitewater was a real estate scandal by the Clintons to job America.

Chinagate was Bill's hand to China's and our pocket.

The Clinton Foundation is a mafia-esque money laundering pay for play scam.

And you are worried about Trump stealing your wallet? Really?

Grenache. This is what winning looks like. Obama was what getting your nuts kicked into your throat feels like. You actually wanna go back to when blacks couldn't get a job, money was spent like it came from a faucet, and 401K plans were squat compared to now? Count me out. I like success. I like it when the country does well...

I have no desire to take a nice warm piss on America that smells like a mix of the Clintons', the Bushes', and Obama's whiz.

Side: Should not
7 points

Obama-

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/50f95bff69beddfc3c000001-902-1203/ba5fuj6cqaavse9.jpglarge.jpg

https://cdn.newsbusters.org/images/2013/February/ForeignPolicy-ObamaSecondComing-cover.jpg

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/Obama/godofallthings.jpg

http://www.foliomag.com/files/images/rollingstoneobama.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5FykDqFy7r4/maxresdefault.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDRkvsiROncKWnG9996F0gWdb0XkptUDR65ySROIJibDEw3cLZfw

http://www.dominica-weekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/jesusobama.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQP8TTEKoUNYsycj2VK3E2i2nnCsVkdvxqtKpGf3KOrKDBwckul5A

http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/30ee2fcefc6d332855db772c52c4c43a-775x1024.jpg

http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/photo12-17-2-768x1024.jpg

Trump-

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2018/01/TIME-cover-trump-edel-768x1024.jpg&w;=480

https://www.haaretz.com/polopolyfs/1.758237.1481447015!/image/654559597.jpggen/derivatives/fullscreen543xAuto/654559597.jpg

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*vrirkudihBxcu2TPY7c2jQ.jpeg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuK08K5Xcr8keii3Xzs8xfwuJZQYxJ58-VjuGv6n-U3ydM03uEFg

http://www.madmagazine.com/sites/default/files/imce/2015/12-DEC/MAD-Magazine-Trump-Cover565e0e5f1e0101.31034369.jpg

https://am14.akamaized.net/med/cnt/uploads/2017/08/Screen-Shot-2017-08-04-at-2.11.07-PM-e1501870337872-650x508.jpg

http://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/CoverStory-Blitt-Miss-Congeniality-879x1200-1475161935.jpeg

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/H5K2C5/cover-of-the-week-magazine-shows-donald-trump-groping-the-statue-of-H5K2C5.jpg

https://cdn.saleminteractivemedia.com/associated-press/data/photos/2017/237/ff8ef334-b4ed-4cfd-9fd0-32ec4febe0b9.jpg

https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2017/06/liar-in-chief.jpg?resize=600,794

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/users/user20/new_yorker.jpg

Side: Should not
6 points

You can be conservative, attack liberals, champion your political issues, etc, all of that is fine. But when you enshrine and protect a man whose behaviors virtually every day are an affront to what the religious and the older generations supposedly stand for

Oh please. Seriously Grenache? Let's pause a minute. Just imagine if Trump finished a speech, did a mic drop, named a failing healthcare system after himself, had gangster rappers throw wild parties at the Whitehouse, ousted two leaders from Egypt and Libya manifesting over 200,000 ISIS militants, had Benghazi on his plate, funneled billions to Iran who was almost broke, left thousands of military grade weapons and vehicles in Iraq that were stockpiled by ISIS, his healthcare system tanked, premiums shot through the roof, he never hit 3% economic growth, and he was whistle blown on for spying on Americans and candidates for President from the opposition party through the NSA. The left would destroy him. He'd already be gone. You know it and I know it.

And while we're at it let's take a look at the magazine covers of both candidates just for grins.

Side: Should not
0 points

Oh please. Seriously Grenache? Let's pause a minute. Just imagine if Trump finished a speech, did a mic drop, named a failing healthcare system after himself

Bronto, you are such a ridiculously stupid liar that you quite literally cannot write a single sentence without making something up. The term "Obamacare" was not invented by Obama. It was invented by political lobbyist Jeanne Schulte Scott, who first used the term in an article for the trade journal, Healthcare Financial Management. Andy Martin then borrowed the phrase and used it in his blog. The rest is history.

Side: Should
1 point

Should you being the Socialist that you are make your Muslim enemies like you ? You are the infidel are you to stupid to get history ?

Side: Should
ArnoDorian(56) Disputed
1 point

Should you being the Socialist that you are make your Muslim enemies like you ?

What? You incoherent nut case.

Side: Should not
9 points

Islam says to kill you, the infidel. It also says to do everything possible to take over nonmuslim countries. Are all Muslims this or that? No. But enough are that to ignore this would be insane.

Side: Should
outlaw60(11723) Disputed
1 point

When have the Muslims shown their love for the infidels ? Do you know ?

Side: Should
1 point

As a conservative leaning American the only shame I feel about my political views is that I didn't have them earlier in life. The real shame is the ease in which peace loving people are duped by a divide and conquer tactic to proudly send our children off to war.

Side: Should

Even if we are lenient and give these useless 4th century throwbacks

All while loving Islam. You've lost the debate and all credibility. You're a fraud.

Side: Should not
1 point

All while loving Islam.

Islam was invented in the 7th century. At least learn the history of the thing you keep attacking, dopey. Islamic ideology is about three hundred years ahead of your pro-war, live-in-fear, everyone-is-your-enemy, warmongering, flag-flying idiocy.

Side: Should
5 points

They sacrifice live animals by slitting their throats in a blood bath at hajj and practice blood rituals where they cut themselves and their small children with knives when someone dies.

Side: Should not
ChriIsBored(35) Disputed
1 point

How is flag flying an insult? You are ridiculous. If you hate the flag go fly Ethiopia's dickhead.

Side: Should not
HyperComm5(29) Disputed
1 point

"Useless 4th Century Throwbacks"

Thats the problem bronto.

A liberal could easy re-construct that into attacking Christianity and Christian Values.

Whether you admit it or not Biblical law and Shariah are very similar.

Side: Should
3 points

Judaism and Islam have many things in common. Muhammed took Judaism and added even more archaic thinking to it. The laws from Christ look nothing like either religion.

Side: Should not
3 points

I assure you, come live in a country where there are terrorist attacks every 2 weeks; where women cant go out at night from fear of being raped; where some stores are forbidden for non veiled women

(I'm not talking of an African country, or the middle east but of some European countries)

Though I must concede that the american approach to Islam is the wrong one, meaning it is not the most effective way to fight Islam

Side: Should not
5 points

So how would you do it? Just keep letting them pour in?

Side: Should
cruzaders(343) Clarified
1 point

No I did not mean that, the travel ban is the best thing to do, but its only a first step: the second one should be teaching people about Islam, its teachings, its history in school for example, people will soon realise that we dont that in our contries

Side: Should
Antrim(1311) Clarified
2 points

Germany, through its industrial dominance of Europe has forced most E.U., member states to share its WAR GUILT and accept millions of so called Muslim refugees. Mainly ECONOMIC refugees.

Not only did all of Europe have to suffer under the GERMAN JACK BOOT during two horrific world wars, but this said same nation is now coercing the smaller European countries to accept countless numbers of Muslim rapists, criminals and dedicated terrorists to help ease their troubled conscience and to display to the world how awfully jolly nice the nation of the stuka dive bombers, panzers AND CONCENTRATION CAMPS have become.

Like all half baked armchair politicians, you say, ''the American approach to Islam is wrong''.

Okay, let's have your detailed proposed alternative.

WE'RE WAITING.

Side: Should
2 points

You are 150% right, about germany,the economic refugies and the war guilt ( though it supprises me that you know about it I did not think it was common knowledge in America: how did you learn about it?)

About the "alternative", heres is a copy of what I wrote to bronto:

"No I did not mean that, the travel ban is the best thing to do, but its only a first step: the second one should be teaching people about Islam, its teachings, its history in school for example, people will soon realise that we dont that in our contries"

Side: Should not
1 point

I assure you, come live in a country where there are terrorist attacks every 2 weeks; where women cant go out at night from fear of being raped

The very fact that you seem to believe this describes Muslim countries and not America proves that you have never been to any of these countries. I question that you could even find the Middle East armed with a map.

Of the Middle East.

Side: Should
5 points

I was in the Middle East for years. It's the threshold of archaic hell. The U.S. was more civilized in 1776 than the Middle East is today.

Side: Should not
5 points

The territory controlled by Islam makes Europe look like a dot on the map, and rather than telling them to clean up their show at home, you welcome them into your countries mindlessly and offer them benefits. Then they happily commit crimes, rape women, and hate your guts.

Side: Should not
Amarel(3129) Disputed
1 point

You’ve made it clear that you have never been to the US. I have no idea which Muslim nations you refer to in similar ignorance.

Side: Should not
cruzaders(343) Clarified
1 point

My statement described western countries that have a big number of muslims, I mentionned Europe because of that; America does not have the same problem or at least at not the same rate because the muslim presence is smaller

(PS: I was born in the US and have went there on vacation twice, though I've never been to the middle east)

Side: Should
1 point

You should be ashamed of yourself for being such a hypocrite. Take a look in the mirror and really ask yourself if you are really operating in a charitable manner.

Maybe you should be ashamed of believing in some homogenized group identity that you can feel accepted socially for being prejudice and mean spirited towards!

Side: Should not

Who's declaring war on Islam?

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Side: Should not
6 points

No one. Islam declared war on us. Islam has never not been at war. Never...in 1,400 years.

Side: Should
1 point

Hello N,

Nahhh. They want the same things liberals want. They just have no clue how to get it.

excon

PS> By the way, I don’t judge conservatism by the conservatives on this site.

Side: Should not

PS> By the way, I don’t judge conservatism by the conservatives on this site.

From my perspective (and bear in mind I live in a country governed by Conservatives), you are a Conservative and the other guys you're referring to are neo-Nazis.

Side: Should not
Mingodalia(276) Disputed
1 point

(and bear in mind I live in a country governed by Conservatives)

You live in the country governed by men who wear wigs and panties. I googles it.

Side: Should
1 point

I'm confused, why should we be ashamed? Of what? Rednecks' stupid posts on Facebook? I don't know...

Side: Should not
1 point

I'm confused, why should we be ashamed?

You personally should be ashamed because the owner of the site has banned you on multiple accounts, but you are still infecting his site with your stupidity. You are fully aware that he does not want you here, yet you do not have any respect for his wishes.

Side: Should
5 points

So why don't your Ramshutu and Quantumhead accounts ever come back out to play?

Side: Should not